Hayward & Scott Exhausts - possible group buy.

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Alfie
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Hayward & Scott Exhausts - possible group buy.

Post by Alfie »

I've been toying with the idea of a new set of back boxes for RED for a long time now, and following several recommendations and discussions, I've decided to go with Hayward and Scott. of Basildon, Essex.

A few people already have H&S systems on their ///MZ4s and have found that the sound is subtle and discreet when not under load, and remarkably free from droning on the motorway.
When you press the naughty pedal, however, they let go a roar from the straight six that will just blow you away! Sounds pretty damn perfect to me!

Since I'm always keen to get a good deal and enjoy helping out the, ahem... 'Zed community', I spoke to H&S about arranging a possible group buy. They were very keen, but we are still in the early stages of planning. Here're the details so far.

Firstly, there is already a group-buy running for H&S ///MZ4 systems. If you don't already know about this, PM me for the details.

This group buy will be open to all other Zed variants.

H&S specialise in the bespoke manufacture of exhaust systems, and tailor their products to the customer's requirements. This means you should get exactly what you want in terms of sound and looks, but the downside is that unless they have previously made a system for your model of car, they will need to keep yours for a few days to take the pattern and make the jig. I need to ask if they have done any BMW Zed systems in the past.

RED is going in tomorrow (27th June) to (hopefully) be kitted out with two shiny new back boxes. 8-) This will give me the chance to have a good chat about what I want, and what they're prepared to offer for this group buy, so I'll have a lot more to report after that.

As for price, the twin boxes for the ///MZ4 are listed at £750.
They have estimated ///MZ3 will be £650 plus VAT, fitted.
My guess for other Zeds with single boxes would be £300-400.
These prices are before any group buy discounts.
Note that this is significantly cheaper than Eisenmann, Supersprint, and many other respected aftermarket systems, AND you're getting a totally customised system made to your specifications.

In the first instance, I'm just assessing initial interest (no commitment at this stage), and I'll post up more details as and when I have them.

REMEMBER, THE MORE BUYERS, THE BETTER THE DISCOUNT! :D

So please post below with your car model and year if you'd like to be included.

Clikee here:
https://www.haywardandscott.com/index.asp

Cheers!
Alfie.

Please read:
As a disclaimer, I am intending no more here than to arrange a contact between the potential customer and Hayward and Scott for the benefit of a group buy discount. I will not be handling any monies and I will not be responsible for any problems, mistakes or misunderstandings whatsoever resulting from this contact. SO PLEASE check every detail to your own satisfaction before you confirm your order and commit to buy.
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Post by johnz3 »

Hi,

I would be interested although again no committment at this stage.

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Thanks
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Post by dooby »

Interested...
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Post by burmagirl »

I'd like to say I'm interested but now much depends on what happens over the next few months - yesterday I had an 8 week Siamese kitten diagnosed with portoystemic shunt; so he won't be going to a new home now, &, so long as we can manage him medically, will need an op later at a referral practice....probably in the region of £3k.....oh hell.

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Post by BenZ3-2.0 »

im interested.

is it the full system from manifold?
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Post by italex »

Hi Alfie

I could possibly be interested.

Alex
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Post by SpunkyM »

+1 from me. Thanks for organising Alfie.
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Post by johnz3 »

'but the downside is that unless they have previously made a system for your model of car, they will need to keep yours for a few days to take the pattern and make the jig. I need to ask if they have done any BMW Zed systems in the past'

Alfie.

If all this gets of the ground and you need someone for the above I am happy to volunteer. I am only 10 minutes from them
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Post by ChrisXL »

I just might be in for that, well worth a trip over. :roll:
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Post by Ash_88 »

im interested :)

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Post by sanchez »

Im interested
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Post by tuxman »

Yep i,m interested too !!
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Post by Alfie »

Wow!
Excellent response so far!
Thanks.

Keep 'em coming!

A.
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Post by Gazza »

I have ProSpeed at the moment so I'll have an audio test of yours when complete. Could be tempted to change :P
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Post by BimBeema »

I'd be interested but I'd like to know if they have already done a Z3 setup before and if there is anyone out there that can do a demo for us first?
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Re: Hayward & Scott Exhausts - possible group buy.

Post by ChrisXL »

Alfie wrote:

RED is going in tomorrow (27th June) to (hopefully) be kitted out with two shiny new back boxes. 8-) This will give me the chance to have a good chat about what I want, and what they're prepared to offer for this group buy, so I'll have a lot more to report after that.
See Alfie's first post......
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BimBeema
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Re: Hayward & Scott Exhausts - possible group buy.

Post by BimBeema »

ChrisXL wrote:
Alfie wrote:

RED is going in tomorrow (27th June) to (hopefully) be kitted out with two shiny new back boxes. 8-) This will give me the chance to have a good chat about what I want, and what they're prepared to offer for this group buy, so I'll have a lot more to report after that.
See Alfie's first post......
Thanks :roll:

So Alfie - any news?
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Alfie
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Post by Alfie »

I dropped RED off last Friday and had a good chat with Ian, the manager. He said that they did an ///MZ3 several years ago, but couldn't remember any other Z3s. We discussed my wants and he seemed to think there would be no problems.... :D

By way of reference, he told me that they had just completed a group buy with the ///M5 forum and had produced approximately 12 systems for them. And they were expecting a £300k Ferrari in on Saturday.... :shock:
As I understand it, most of their work is for Porsches and Subarus where their work is very well respected.

There was also a beautiful Mark 1 Capri on one of the ramps which was being completely rebuilt. H&S have been commissioned to fabricate and fit an exact replica of the original exhaust system from the block down. Ian showed me underneath and the attention to detail was incredible!

The prices I mentioned above are not final. It's impossible to give an exact price until the original has been inspected, and the group buy discount will be based on the number of buyers.
And the prices are based on cat-back. They can do complete systems right from the engine, but you'd have to discuss the details directly with them if that's what you want.

Also, they can 'de-cat' if required, but Ian pointed out that doing so can cause a long string of troubles and expense in dealing with the various sensors, and then the hassle of replacing the cats for MoT.

What would be REALLY useful is if you could also provide me with the BMW part number for your back boxes, so I can compare between models and ages of cars. REALOEM can help with this.

Click here for some videos including DavidM's ///MZ4 with H&S pipes. :twisted:

I'll be collecting RED this Friday (4th Aug), so I'll be back with more after that!

In the mean time, let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to answer them.

A.
Last edited by Alfie on Mon 30 Jun, 2008 11:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ChrisXL »

Is there a choice in exhaust pipe diameter?
I reckon this shouldn't be too much of a deal as this has no effect on the construction of the back boxes, just the fitting and rework of the rear valance.
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Alfie
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Post by Alfie »

ChrisXL wrote:Is there a choice in exhaust pipe diameter?
Anything from a biro to a dustbin.
Your choice.
:D

We agreed that 75mm (slightly bigger than stock) would be best for me since I didn't want to mod the rear skirt or risk it melting.

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Post by SpunkyM »

I would go along with that sort of size too. I went to the IOM trip in the videos above and must say David's car did sound well fruity. I think when first done it was a little too brash so he had them tone it down a bit, but H&S are great in this respect in that they will tweak things for you until you are happy.

I made a previous post about their current add in Evo here...

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... ghlight=m3


..the perfect system for me would be to have that M3 rasp when flooring it, otherwise as quiet as stock. This seems to be the solution that they are advertising in Evo - but I'm still not sure about this X pipe business, maybe something to question them on?
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Post by Mikemac »

Very interested in this...........

2.8

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Post by Alex L »

I hope they do turn out to be good, I've been harping on about these to Alfie and others for years after my father had one on his 911.

They are very highly regarded in Porsche circles and have been advertising in 911 and Porsche World for as long as I can remember.

I look forward to hearing Alfie's ///M when the work is complete.
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Post by Alfie »

Alex L wrote:I hope they do turn out to be good, I've been harping on about these to Alfie and others for years after my father had one on his 911.
:lol: Yeah....we can all blame you when it all goes horribly wrong...!!!!!
Alex L wrote:I look forward to hearing Alfie's ///M when the work is complete.
Oh yes! Me too!
Thanks Alex.

A.
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Alfie
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Post by Alfie »

BUMP....!
....to remind you that I'm going to H&S tomorrow (Friday 4th) to collect RED. :squeeze: :squeeze: :squeeze:

As for the group-buy, we have 16 interested peeps so far, which is excellent! Should get us a substantial discount if all those 'follow through'.... :D

Let me know quick if you've got any more questions and of course, it's not too late to register your interest if you haven't already done so.

I'll be back soon, hopefully with a 'first impressions' report on the new boxes! :twisted:

Cheers!
A.
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Post by Andrew330Ci »

What's it like Alfie?

Got any pics?

Cheers
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Alfie
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Post by Alfie »

Pipes successfully fitted and sounding FORKIN' AWESOME...!!!

Holmesdale Tunnel yesterday afternoon, clear outside lane, dropped a couple of cogs and pushed the cheeky pedal....Oooooo I was giggling all the way home! What an incredible noise!

I'm a bit rushed this weekend, but I'll get a few more objective thoughts penned and a few pics as soon as I can.

The group buy is still very much on....

A.
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Post by topfuelking »

i am interested for a 97 2.8
THANKS MARC
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Post by Alex L »

Alfie wrote:sounding FORKIN' AWESOME...!!!
Phew, looking forward to hearing it
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Post by tuxman »

Alfie,can you put some pictures up ??
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Post by Phil »

Alfie - I hope you are not going to be disturbing the peace in the Tarn Valley in a few days time. I look forward to hearing the noise bouncing off the gorges. :lol:
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Post by tuxman »

Alfie any news ??? any pictures ?? how is it ??
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Alfie
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Post by Alfie »

Hi guys...

Sorry, been a little distracted this week for various reasons.

We went out for a serious test drive tonight and ran the car on country lanes, built up areas, M25, etc., both with roof up and roof down.

Firstly, I think these pipes make the car sound ABSOLUTELY AWESOME! When you're playing, it growls and snarls like a BMW straight 6 really should!

My worry was that Mrs A would get very pee'd off with that kind of volume for hours on end on the motorway, and that it would be impossible to creep round town when you need to.

We tried all these situations tonight and I'm pleased to say that with some careful gear selection and a thoughtful right foot, it is possible to approach with 'stealth', and the noise on the motorway, although louder than with OEM tubes, is certainly not unbearable, and you can easily talk over it.

Cabin noise with the roof up was substantially more than OEM, but again, not unbearable.

There is definitely a 'booming' around 1500-2000 RPM which was always there and is accentuated with the new boxes, but this can be solved by powering through it and selecting the appropriate gear.

DavidM tells me that he has had extra baffling fitted because he wants to use his car on track, where the more open pipes would definitely exceed the dB allowances.

So my conclusion would be that if your Zed is for fun only (probably not your daily), and if you're not too bothered about listening to your high quality ICE, and you want a pretty mad sound, go for the open pipes....believe me, you will NOT be disappointed!
Or if you want something a little more subdued, but still noisier than OEM, go for the extra baffling. Remember though that the extra baffles can be retro-fitted, so I would suggest going for the complete MONSTER first of all, then get them adjusted later if you (or the Mrs) finds it too much.

We're off to Millau on Saturday for a week, so we'll see how we get on!

I'll get pics and (hopefully) some soundbites or video next week and get them posted on here.

As for the group buy, sorry for the delay.
I'll get on to it after the week away.

Cheers!
Alfie.
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Post by Giles »

Nice one Paul.

It's important to remember that a bit like a fine wine, after market zorsts will mature with age as well. My Eisenmann's were testimony to this. You also need to check fixings etc too after say 500 miles because they will move a bit initially until they settle down.

Out of interest Paul, what db are they rated at without the extra baffles?
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Post by Alfie »

So who's this 'Paul' character then????

Thanks for the advice about 'maturing' and checking the fixings, but it won't be 500 miles....more like 2000 after next week's little excursion! And what exactly do you mean by 'maturing'?

I don't know the dB rating, and H&S won't have tested it. It's custom made for my car, so they won't have official brochure figures. TBH, it's sounds great, so until I become the second person to get an H&S ASBO, I'm not really worried!

DavidM had his ///MZ4 tested, but I can't remember the figures. It was too much for most tracks, so he got it toned down.

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Post by Giles »

Alfie wrote:And what exactly do you mean by 'maturing'?
Alfred, you obviously don't drink wine :lol:

The pipes need to bed themselves in. The metal will heat up and expand for the first time, some lacquer will be burnt off, the fixing will settle and all of these things mean that how they sound and perform on day one will be different to day 101 - comprendez??!!

I shouldn't worry, it will only get better, hence the fine wine observation :thumb:
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Post by spokey »

Giles wrote:The pipes need to bed themselves in. The metal will heat up and expand for the first time, some lacquer will be burnt off, the fixing will settle and all of these things mean that how they sound and perform on day one will be different to day 101 - comprendez??!!
Definitely happened with my BTBs. Alfie, don't worry, no-one is expecting you to mature. :D
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Post by Kiwi »

Beeen watching this thread with interest - was going to pick up an Eisenmann for my MC in the next year or so (my MC back in NZ while I'm here in London for another year so no rush) but thinking about the H&S now.


Really looking forward to hearing a soundclip/video when you have the time - thanks Alfie.
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Post by c_w »

Exhaust sounds and what is "loud" or "too loud" is a very personal; to me it sounds like these are quite loud but there is also the sound "quality" whether it's boomy/drones or a vocal sound that doesnt give you a headache!!

Bear in mind that for those of us with the Coupe any sound will be subjectively louder than the roadster due to the enclosed cabin over the boot vs a "seperate" cabin as with the roadster so any resonance will probably be louder. The Supersprints are very good in this regard as there is very little extra noise unless you're on open throttle.
Last edited by c_w on Fri 11 Jul, 2008 12:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Alfie »

Giles wrote:....comprendez??!!
Yeah yeah, I comprendez....but perhaps I should've been more specific in my question.... :roll:

Maybe I should've said "In your experience, sir, what effect will the maturing have on the sound?"
spokey wrote:Alfie, don't worry, no-one is expecting you to mature. :D
Well, that's handy!

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Post by Alfie »

Alfie wrote:DavidM had his ///MZ4 tested, but I can't remember the figures. It was too much for most tracks, so he got it toned down.
From him wot knows...
Top end of 106dB before extra baffles... 99 - 100db after.
Comprendez? :wink:

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Giles
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Post by Giles »

106bdB!? - blimey that is loud :shock:

Are they straight throughs then?

(I really hope this isn't going to become a conversation with David via Kofi Alfie Annan BTW) :wink:
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Post by Kiwi »

c_w wrote:Bear in mind that for those of us with the Coupe any sound will be subjectively louder than the roadster due to the enclosed cabin over the boot vs a "seperate" cabin as with the roadster so any resonance will probably be louder. The Supersprints are very good in this regard as there is very little extra noise unless you're on open throttle.
V. good point.

Quick OT for cw - enjoyed the 'Ring video you posted and was particularly impressed by your coupe's sound. I understand your MC has Supersprints fitted - I hadn't really rated their tone before (although I appreciate their apparent performance payoff) but your MC sounded great on the videos. Do you have any other exhaust mods as well and are you running a Gruppe M or Simota etc?
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Alfie
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Post by Alfie »

Giles wrote:106bdB!? - blimey that is loud :shock:
OOOOOOO YES...!!! :twisted:
Giles wrote:Are they straight throughs then?
The bits I had replaced were cat-back and they're the same as OEM in terms of pipe and box configuration.
What they do inside the boxes I wouldn't know....

I just spoke to my insurance company about another matter and thought I'd mention the new exhaust on RED. I explained that it looked the same as OEM (except the outlet pipe seems a little larger), but wasn't actually made by BMW. He said that unless it was a 'big' exhaust system, then it makes no difference to them, although he would make a note to say I'd told them about it incase a claim was made.

He pointed out that if a claim was made, they would only replace with OEM. Fair enough if they're not charging me extra premium.

I asked what he meant by a 'big' exhaust and he didn't know, but made a joke about flames coming out, which might increase the premium slightly! So he was happy with the fact that it just looks OEM....Result!

That's Admiral Multicar if you're interested.

I also asked about a strut brace for my 330Ci Cab. He said no charge but needed to note it. Once again, the strut would not be paid for in the event of a claim.

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Post by Guest »

Alfie wrote:He pointed out that if a claim was made, they would only replace with OEM. Fair enough if they're not charging me extra premium.


A.
The ironic part about that is that the standard pipes are at least £400 each from BMW!

I can't wait to hear them. We can have a loudness contest :twisted:

Si.
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Post by Alfie »

siwilson wrote:I can't wait to hear them. We can have a loudness contest :twisted:
Oooo YES! I think mine will win on volume, but yours will win on pure classiness....

However, from what Giles says above, I think mine might become a little more refined as time passes..... 8-)

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Post by Guest »

Yes, as the sooty deposits (and that's not dung form a puppet) build up inside the muffler it will dampen the echo and booming a little. Hopefully taking any nasty edge off and leving you with a sexy growl.

Si.
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Post by c_w »

Kiwi wrote:
c_w wrote:Bear in mind that for those of us with the Coupe any sound will be subjectively louder than the roadster due to the enclosed cabin over the boot vs a "seperate" cabin as with the roadster so any resonance will probably be louder. The Supersprints are very good in this regard as there is very little extra noise unless you're on open throttle.
V. good point.

Quick OT for cw - enjoyed the 'Ring video you posted and was particularly impressed by your coupe's sound. I understand your MC has Supersprints fitted - I hadn't really rated their tone before (although I appreciate their apparent performance payoff) but your MC sounded great on the videos. Do you have any other exhaust mods as well and are you running a Gruppe M or Simota etc?
The sounds is from the airbox as the mic is stuffed down near the intake on the inner wing - due to a low response microphone I had to put it some where that was very loud on throttle otherwise it doesn't pick anything up; it's a standard airbox so I think this is just how they sound at the intake point (I sold the Supersprints).
tuxman
Joined: Sun 01 Apr, 2007 11:02
Posts: 58

  M roadster S50

Post by tuxman »

OK Alfie all sounds great ......so how much are they going to be ,when can we get them fitted etc .....can you please put a piccy up if you get chance . thanks Simon
tuxman
Joined: Sun 01 Apr, 2007 11:02
Posts: 58

  M roadster S50

Post by tuxman »

Any news on the group buy ??? or have i missed it !!!! Alfie are you there ??
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