new Eagle F1- how long to run/scrub in?

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BartS
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new Eagle F1- how long to run/scrub in?

Post by BartS »

With Yorkshire cruize in mind, got 2 new Eagle F1 fitted (245/45/17) GSD3, fitted on the rear this weekend.

As I was not very impressed with the original 8080 on the car, decided to follow the most preferred route and fit some F1s instead.

Front 8080 are still nearly new so did not replace them yet (was an expensive w/e anyway as my windscreen it being replaced today as well :head: :head: (at least insurance pays for nearly all)


However, having done now over 200 miles on the F1s and having done a test run of the Bunch of Hunt II with Spokey yesterday, I must say, that so far the performance of the F1 is still even worse than the 8080

I hope that all you will now convince me they need more time to be run it, and I genuinely hope this is true, as my dashboard light was more like DavidM christmas tree (not that I have ever seen his X-mas tree), as the ASC/DSC light worked overtime yesterday

In particularly, I found fast corners and the acceleration out of these quite freighthening, as DSC light sometimes even remained on on the straights.

I knew the limits of my car with the 8080, but with the F1 it was a step backwards so far.... pls F1s have mercy with me!

I know PhilR had problems with his set on his ///M but I thought that generally, the F1s are the business.

Does performance generally improve after 500/1000 miles? I hope so, I thought that still having 8080 on the front should not really be the issue.

Otherwise I'll come in my A3 to the Rutted Toad/Yorks cruize :D :D
Im sure it will come in handy for RachelM.... pick-nick anyone!

I hope I'll get some re-assuring feedback as the first 225 miles have been scary at times.....
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Post by Zmeagol »

Several of us felt that Phil's problems were to do with mixing tyre types. I had F1s, went gently with them for at least 20 miles, then tried them out--brilliant.

Tim
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okay

Post by BartS »

but from my driving experiences yesterday, it still seems the problems are coming from the rear, ie. new F1s and not from the 8080 at the front.

I would find it very hard to understand that the balance of the handling of the car could change so much by having F1s at the rear and 8080 at the front.

If no change, then I suppose I will have no other option but to splash out and additional £225 for new F1s at the front as well.

Anyone else with an educated opinion on this....?
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Post by nero »

I am also nearing the point of having to change tyres.

I'm not really in a position to change all four, but having heard Bart and Phil's tales it seems to be the only route.

What happens if you replace all four and performance is worse than your present tyres (highly unlikely as I also have the 8080's)?

I have read that the F1's are not as good as previous versions, so what tyre is flavour of the month?
Last edited by nero on Mon 09 Aug, 2004 15:55, edited 1 time in total.
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RobBruce
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Re: F1's

Post by RobBruce »

BartS wrote:but from my driving experiences yesterday, it still seems the problems are coming from the rear, ie. new F1s and not from the 8080 at the front.

I would find it very hard to understand that the balance of the handling of the car could change so much by having F1s at the rear and 8080 at the front.

If no change, then I suppose I will have no other option but to splash out and additional £225 for new F1s at the front as well.

Anyone else with an educated opinion on this....?
Bart,

I've had F1's on a couple of different cars, including my Z3, and I really rate them. Yes, they do take a little while to scrub in - upto about 500 miles depending on your style of driving.

I can't really comment on the mix of makes - I ALWAYS make sure that if I'm changing makes then I change all four. Have never had any problems with F1's when I've done so. The tyres are designed to work together, and they're all that keeps you on the road............

I'd be splashing the £225 mate.

Hope this helps

Rob
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Post by BartS »

it seems am stuck in a dilemma here

I cant really question the F1s i suppose, too many people swear by them.

Having had a 1.9 with the factory fitted Michelins, I must say they were pretty good and I can honestly say I drove my 1.9 hard and spirited...

now been driving the 3.0 since May 04 (Lakes)
drove it gently in the lakes, :wink: but obviously the near doubling of the bhp is putting handling in a new perspective

since lakes, everyone told me the factory fit 8080 tyres are old design (F1 dealer said it not the case, bespoke BMW?) and I must say particularly in the wet the 8080 were much worse than the michelins i had on my 1.9

I suppose I'll just have to patient, get some more mileage in the F1 this months and if I am still not totally convinced, I suppose it will leave me with no option but to change the fronts to F1 as well.
As shame as the front 8080 are still in perfect condition and have still many many miles left in them...
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Post by Giles »

I agree with Tim.

Seems odd that the only two people to report MAJOR handling issues with F1's have not fitted them on all four corners....coincidence?
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Post by RobBruce »

BartS wrote:
I suppose I'll just have to patient, get some more mileage in the F1 this months and if I am still not totally convinced, I suppose it will leave me with no option but to change the fronts to F1 as well.
As shame as the front 8080 are still in perfect condition and have still many many miles left in them...
Stick them on the back. One word - donuts :twisted:


Rob
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Post by BartS »

RobBruce wrote:
Stick them on the back. One word - donuts :twisted:
the thought had crossed my mind....maybe I should bring them to the Yorkshire cruize and we can run a little "donut" competition as pre-dinner entertainment....
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Post by Bloke »

Bart,

I have to say, I replaced all 4 8080's with F1's and they didnt take long to scrub in at all, I realise that I only have the 2.0 ltr and therefore alot less power than yours, but I have no issue with traction control coming on, only when I over do the loud peday a bit on take off!! stick with them and replace the fronts too!! ps did you go to Wembley tyres to get them?



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Interesting---------

Post by Phil »

I eventually changed all 4 back to Pilot Sport 2s and instantly brilliant.
Its interesting that by changing only 2 makes such a difference.
Anyone changed fronts only with mixed brands?
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Post by Robin »

Within 10 miles of replacing my Pilots all round with F1's I was well pleased with the extra grip. I found the Pilots to be useless though maybe Pilot 2's are better ?
Last edited by Robin on Mon 09 Aug, 2004 12:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by spokey »

Crud! :head: My back two SP9000s are worn and need replacing, I was hoping to get away with a staged swap... :roll:
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Post by BartS »

Bloke wrote:Bart,

ps did you go to Wembley tyres to get them?

Bloke
I did yes,

Paid £235 for my rear F1s: 245/40/17 , all inclusive

Good service, were very carefull with my alloy rims (I did remind them) so it looks like to the front 225/145/17 may soon be replaced as well, should performance not improve.

If any needs new tyres in London area, Wembley Tires, is probably the place to go !
details on request
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Post by BartS »

spokey wrote:Crud! :head: My back two SP9000s are worn and need replacing, I was hoping to get away with a staged swap... :roll:

So was I, but you were there yesterday and the proof was in the proverbial pudding and on a number of occcasions, i felt i was not in control of the car, with handling that I had not yet experienced before.

now I realise that Spokey's run are always good & spirited driving, but still.... am impatient to see, how/if performance improves over the next couple of hundred miles
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Post by NorwegianBlue »

I recently replaced all four tyres for Goodyear Eagle F1's and I do think they are better than the original Pilot Sport's.

When new, they did feel a bit 'slippy' for a while but after a couple of trips to the office they seemed fine. It would be difficult for me to give a full comparison, as I did go up a size on the tyre and I'm not one for pushing the limits. The most noticeable difference was the reduction in noise but I guess that's not the highest priority when making a tyre choice. Certainly the DSC light is not on as much, as it was with the Pilot's.
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Post by Robin »

Norwegian you just reminded yet another reason I was glad I switched to F1's is they are quieter.
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Post by TonyCal »

Here we are back to the old tyre debates.

Must add my 2p worth now.
I had F1's on my 1.9, grip wet or dry superb.
I also have F1's on my M, grip wet or dry again superb. In fact I can honestly say that the grip from the F1's surpasses any other tyre I have ever driven on. Believe me I have driven on a few having been in the trade.
On both cars I have replaced the tyres in sets, £478 including fitting etc I think the set for the M was, from Blackcircles. I know that Tim never had a problem with his F1's either.

One thing I will say, on my recent trip abroad and 4 laps round the Nurburgring, the Goodyears behaved superbly, they did let go once on the Ring, my own fault entered a corner a fraction too fast, but it did result in a glorious power slide round a double apex corner. My passenger at the time was Neil, a bike instructor at the ring, was gobsmacked at the time. I found you really had to force the car to get the F1's to lose rear end grip, in spite of some extreemly spirited driving on the ring.

Bart have you tried them in the wet? I know Phils DSC light was rarely on in the wet when I went with him at the lakes.

In conclusion it can only be because the tyres are replaced in pairs, maybe the goodyears grip well on the rear, but the worn dunlops on the front dont grip so well causing the DSC to activate. You had matched tyres before all round, so this could be the reason for the problem. Unfortunately with the M and the later Z3's you cant rotate the tyres as they are different sizes to even up the wear. When I was fitting tyres to a perfoemance car, then if replacing a pair, stick with what you have on the front, same make and tread. If changing 4 then you can change make etc. But this was a long time ago now and cars these days with the electronic bits and pieces make things a lot more complicated.
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thx Tony

Post by BartS »

well spirited driving it was yesterday, Sarah sunbathing at home, meant the boys could go out and play...

it does indeed seem that I need to get new F1s on the front axle as well... somehow a bit of a shame as the Dunlop 8080 are impeccable and rather new (I think they may have done less than 4k, (2k with me and 2k with previous owner)

as said, on yesterday's drive i did not get the feeling it was the fronts that were letting me down, it was a rather "floaty" feeling of my new F1s on the rear!

have now "only" driven 225 miles with them so I'll give them a go for the rest of the week, if nothing improves, I will have no other option but to replace the Dunlops....

anytakes for a donut session in Yorkshire?
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Post by Robin »

Tony I paid just £94 per F1 at Micheldevor tyres though of course my 2.8 doesn't have wide ones on the rear.
I see you took your Z3 on the track. I've been tempted to but haven't due the risks of rolling a softop.
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Post by Giles »

Robin wrote:I've been tempted to but haven't due the risks of rolling a softop.
The risk is 99% of the time in the hands of the driver Robin....

(And I don't understand why you think you'd be more prone to rolling an open top car as opposed to one with a roof?)
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Post by Robin »

Giles sorry didn't make that clear.
Let me say 'I would worry about the consequences of rolling a soft top car.'
Someone was telling me the other day about their unfortunate friend who was decapitated when they rolled their Triumph Spitfire. OK so Spitfires don't have roll bars but one wonders how effective roll bars are at 70+ mph ?
In fact probably no good at any speed if you roll when on the soft stuff.

"The risk is 99% of the time in the hands of the driver Robin"
Mmm not so sure. On the track there must be a more than a mere 1% risk that if you have a prang it's due to other drivers screwing up or maybe even cutting you up.
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Post by TonyCal »

Roll bars would certainly be more effective than not having them. as Giles says you are just as much at risk in a tin top. This reminds me I must get a skid lid for next time.
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Post by Giles »

Robin wrote:"The risk is 99% of the time in the hands of the driver Robin"
Mmm not so sure. On the track there must be a more than a mere 1% risk that if you have a prang it's due to other drivers screwing up or maybe even cutting you up.
Yeah fair comment, perhaps 90% then, certainly on BMWBBDs all the 'moments' I've had have been down to me, not another driver. When I was on the Ring it was pretty quiet so again traffic didn't really come into it.

Robin - just stuff it and take your darn car onto a track...Go On you know you want to, and after all life's for living, not discussing on a Z Board :colourful:
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Post by Robin »

Tony I think a tin top offers more protection than a softop with roll bars.
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Post by Robin »

Giles yeh i'd love to go on a track. Hope to get an M Roadster on Wednesday. Life's fffor llliving iisn't iit ?
Sssorry I ssstutter when I gget nervous :lol:
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Post by Zmeagol »

TonyCal wrote:This reminds me I must get a skid lid for next time.
I was very pleased with the Caberg Downtown which has an integral sun visor that can be pulled down when you want it. I've since bought a full face BMW helmet for the bike, but was pleased to see that Caberg was the only other brand the BMW dealer sold.

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Post by Giles »

Robin wrote:Hope to get an M Roadster on Wednesday.
About time too.

Anyhow lets try to keep on the subject of F1's, FWIW my experience mirrors Tim's and Tony's , marvellous grip - a superb tyre right from the off. Interestingly I thought that road noise was actually greater not less than with PS1's, but perhaps that was due to switching to 18" alloys.

I still think F1's win the day certainly so far as the Z's concerned but cannot help wondering if they suffer badly if they are not run as a foursome :rtm:
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Post by Phil »

i really recommend you all the yokohama avs sport. theses tires are amazing.
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Post by 'MC' MarkC »

BartS;
I swapped my rears to F1s about 2 months before fitting F1s to the front, in the meantime I still had the 8080s on the front. I had several 'moments' in this interim period [see below].

The front would wash out way earlier than before, especially in the wet. Up until then I hadn't [without provocation] had the back end out even once, however this happened on 2/3 occasions.

After fitting the front F1s, proper balance has been recovered. I find that the front drifts slightly pretty much exactly when I expect it to, and the rear has a much higher level of grip than with the 8080s all round. About the only disadvantage is that the rear-end breakaway point is a little more sudden than before, therefore requiring quicker correction.

Incidently, it was while I had the mixed front/rear, that I crunched the nose upon exiting a roundabout too hard :head:.
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Aquaplaning

Post by Robin »

Last time I drove in heavy rain when I had the Pilots I found the car had an alarming tendency to aquaplane on shallow puddles. This is a risk with wide tyres on a small light vehicle.
I don't think it would be so prone to with F1's becuase the tread pattern curves to the edges of the tyre thus to allowing water to dissipate.
I really am NOT a fan of Pilots.
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Post by Lorraine »

I have had 2 full sets of Pilot Sports and 1 full set of F1s. I fully intend on switching back to F1s when these Pilots go.

My impression is that the Pilots are quite good, but I prefer the F1s. I am also finding that the DSC light comes on more frequently with the Pilots which tells me that they are loosing traction more than the F1s did - this is especially true during hard cornering. I can't quite put my finger on the differences, but somehow the F1s felt a bit more "sporting" and precise than the Pilots. I had more confidence in hard cornering with the F1s, possibly due to the fact that the DSC light wasn't constantly flashing as it does now. I remember being impressed with the Pilots when I first got the car, but now that I have had the F1s on as well as a comparison I want the F1s back!

Bart, I would not imagine that it would be a good idea to mix tyre types on these cars, and from what you guys are saying I would think that it is worth it to ditch the 8080s and get F1s for the front. Then later when your rears wear your fronts will probably still be in decent shape and you will only need to replace the rears. This is how it seems to go with me, done 39,000 miles in my 3.0 and am on my 3rd set of rears.
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Post by 'MC' MarkC »

Lorraine wrote:done 39,000 miles in my 3.0 and am on my 3rd set of rears.
...must be all those traffic-light grand-prixs you take part in :D
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Post by Lorraine »

mbmwx wrote:
Lorraine wrote:done 39,000 miles in my 3.0 and am on my 3rd set of rears.
...must be all those traffic-light grand-prixs you take part in :D
Oi!! Don't give away all my secrets! :roflmao:
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Post by 'MC' MarkC »

secrets, what secrets :?: Oh, sorry, must be the ones that everybody who's been on the same cruises as you is party to :D
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Post by mroadster »

Giles wrote:I agree with Tim.

Seems odd that the only two people to report MAJOR handling issues with F1's have not fitted them on all four corners....coincidence?
Not true Giles.

I had Goodyear F1's all round and they were crap (to put it politely).

The worst tyres I have ever had.

I know some people rave about F1's but I would advise caution as it would appear that their quality is variable at best - some are good, some are (very) bad.

In my experience, the best tyres currently available are Michelin Pilot Sport 2's but they are expensive (ContiSportContact 2's are a close second if you are on a 'limited' budget').

On an ///M I would avoid any other brands.

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Brand new F1 on rear today

Post by stu »

and a few weeks ago new fronts too (see toasted tyres).

New F1's no problems at all Bart.

Stick with it, just check your pressure are correct as the fitters may have left over inflated after seating the beads????

Should be just fine in the 'Valley of John'.
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Dont confuse Pilot Sports to Pilot Sports 2----------

Post by Phil »

They are completely different. The original Pilot Sports had the V tread pattern like F1s. The new Pilot Sport 2 has traditional tread pattern like the Bridgestones.
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Post by mrloneranger »

Bart,

Have you got new front tyres yet ???

I'm waiting to see what happened as i seem to have a similar issue
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Post by garyw »

mroadster wrote:Seems odd that the only two people to report MAJOR handling issues with F1's the best tyres currently available are Michelin Pilot Sport 2's but they are expensive (ContiSportContact 2's are a close second if you are on a 'limited' budget
I currently have Pilot Sport 2's on my car at present, they came fitted to my car, and being as I'm on a limited budget :? these will be removed ASAP and replaced with Conti Contact 2's. reasons

I had Conti 2's on my previous model and whilst not the best wearing tyre, never gave me any doubt to its grip. Nor gave any nasty handling characteristics.

The Pilot Sport 2's are the scariest tyres I have ever driven with, I originally thought that they maybe needed scrubbing in, but after 3000 hard miles they have not changed. Whilst they are giving grip and haven't yet let me down, they squeal at every opportunity, whilst hard breaking the car/tyres squeal as if the brakes have locked up and skidding (very scary, especially for the guy in front!!) on cornering at only 45mph on easy corners they sound like a F1 car doing a 100mph spin :shock:
They are shocking. Whilst these are only noises, it really does not give you any confidence and also attracts so much attention that is not always required (BiB)
I will do some more research before the purchase and post the findings, but being as i have just had a puncture on the rear (which will probably scrap it after 3000mls) its a good time to start.
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Mrloneranger

Post by Lorraine »

Mrloneranger,

Bart started another thread in the Performance forum called "Gone are the 8080, long live the F1s" where he talks about how the fronts have now been replaced and what he thinks. Have a look there......
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Anyone tried the new Avon ZZ3

Post by Phil »

I've obviously got a rubber fetish !!!!!!!!
I like my Pilot Sports but have just fitted 2 of the new Avon ZZ3s to the rear of our 323 saloon. They look like F1s with a very aggressive V tread pattern and have been on since Friday last. First impressions are very good indeed. 205/55 ZR16s were £70 per tyre fitted and I didnt shop around.
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Post by TonyCal »

know a few people with ZZ3's on 3 series and heard good reports about them. dont know anyone who has tried them on a Z though.
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Giles
Joined: Fri 10 Oct, 2003 17:51
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  Not specified

Post by Giles »

TonyCal wrote:..dont know anyone who has tried them on a Z though.
I think DavidM's PN has them on Velveteen.
DavidM
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Post by DavidM »

Giles wrote:
TonyCal wrote:..dont know anyone who has tried them on a Z though.
I think DavidM's PN has them on Velveteen.
You, Giles, have a good memory - she does indeed have them fitted - when we couldn't get Eagle F1s - we were recommended these instead

And ...

I like them - I push the car a little more than she does - the comparison was good becuase I had my Silver roadster with Eagles fitted and she had the ZZ3s fitted - both were all round new sets. And I couldn't tell the difference - as hard as I tried - she still has them, they are wearing well, don't break grip very easily and look like the mutts proverbial nuts.

Me ...

I am back on Pilot Sport 2's - on the ///M

Would I recommend the ZZ3s - as the Churchill dog may say ...

"Oh Yes"
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M Blur
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Re: Dont confuse Pilot Sports to Pilot Sports 2----------

Post by M Blur »

Phil wrote:They are completely different. The original Pilot Sports had the V tread pattern like F1s. The new Pilot Sport 2 has traditional tread pattern like the Bridgestones.
That not actually true - the new Ps2s use the latest assymetrical type and this is seen as the next beig step forward in wet dispersion. I've actually started to shine better to my PS1s as they have worn..

Best guy to speak to is Mark @ Black Circles.. not many know as much about tyres as he.

My first choice going fwd will either be;

Yoko' Parada (when available)
Mich' Pilot Sport 2 (PS2)
Toyo Proxis T1-R.. better durability and wet grip.
Goodyear Eagle F1s.. still one of the best in the dry.

As to experiences.. much depends on how you drive and what you look for in the feel of the car.. some guys like a lot of movement in the car.. others want simple stability and traction.

Best to all.
:)
garyw
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  Porsche

Post by garyw »

Well my punctured Pilot2 was scrap :roll: no surprise there then.
Tyre dealer (silverline) has recommended Pirelli rosso or back to the Conti contact 2's. any users of these?

And to top it all the Michellin's are £60 more expensive than either of the others(on the rear)
I may have to eat pie and replace the rear with a new Pilot until I can get some wear of of the other remaining three..
:head:
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M Blur
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Post by M Blur »

garyw wrote:Well my punctured Pilot2 was scrap :roll: no surprise there then.
Tyre dealer (silverline) has recommended Pirelli rosso or back to the Conti contact 2's. any users of these?

And to top it all the Michellin's are £60 more expensive than either of the others(on the rear)
I may have to eat pie and replace the rear with a new Pilot until I can get some wear of of the other remaining three..
:head:
Most in the tyre trade generally swear by Michelins.. they usually have the best reliability and tyre wear. One guy who used to work for Quik Fit said it was the only brand that they never saw warranty claims for. I'd say they sacrifice some dry grip but the PS2s seem to be proving to be a good tyre in most conditions. Rosso is a really nice 'summer' tyre but not a particualry good winter tyre. The PS2 seems a good improvement on the PS. A lof of the bad opinion seems to stem from their costs at some level. I persoanlly didn't get on with my PS' for a long time but they have bedded in well and their wear r8 is first class.
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  Porsche

Post by garyw »

M Blur, thanks for the info, but it gets worse, tried two tyre dealers, can't even get the Pilot2 for five weeks, been onto the Porsche dealer and asked what is going on!!!

It gets even worse than that, I have just had to get some numbers of my tyres to find that they are only Pilot sports, not 2's :shock: :shock:

Back to the dealer.......
Last edited by garyw on Tue 24 Aug, 2004 16:05, edited 1 time in total.
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M Blur
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Post by M Blur »

garyw wrote:M Blur, thanks for the info, but it gets worse, tried two tyre dealers, can't even get the Pilot2 for five weeks, been onto the Porsche dealer and asked what is going on!!!
New car and can't use it :wink: for five weeks.
Have you tried CostCo...?
:wink:
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