Trackdays advice wanted

[jontymo]

My Z has been up for sale for a few days but i have started to have a rethink, i was going to buy a car for trackdays but now thinking of keeping my Z and spending a few quid setting it up better for the track. It is standard at the mo.

Looking for advice on what to do, some things i'm thinking off is lowering and fitting new shocks probably Spax setup for 3-400 quid and changing the front pads.

Any advice please?

Also anyone fancy doing a trackday at some point?

jontymo

[TaffZee]

Glad your going to keep the Zed Jon, just sold a set of Spax sport suspension

How about this meet on the 28th?

[Daz2626]

Trade it in for a S2000 is my advice for a rear wheel track car

[jontymo]

Glad your going to keep the Zed Jon, just sold a set of Spax sport suspension

How about this meet on the 28th?

How come sold Jim, i thought you was putting it on yours!

Not sure on the 28th yet

[spokey]

Really, until you know what the limits of your car are, I wouldn't bother too much. I'd always start with the brakes, anyway. Faffing with the suspension may make your car look cool, but you will spend more time trying to get the handling right than you will on the track.

[jontymo]

Really, until you know what the limits of your car are, I wouldn't bother too much. I'd always start with the brakes, anyway. Faffing with the suspension may make your car look cool, but you will spend more time trying to get the handling right than you will on the track.

yawn

You know the 3's are not the best handling cars in the world and need suspension and bush's sorting to get the best from them.

If i was going for looks i would have lowered it ages ago.

[spokey]

Really, until you know what the limits of your car are, I wouldn't bother too much. I'd always start with the brakes, anyway. Faffing with the suspension may make your car look cool, but you will spend more time trying to get the handling right than you will on the track.

yawn

You know the 3's are not the best handling cars in the world and need suspension and bush's sorting to get the best from them.

Actually, I don't.

[swamper]

jon what about a rear brace as well

[Z3cade]

Id say the first thing to buy for tracking the zed would be a decent helmet! being a soft top an all... then brakes and coilover kit so you can adjust ride height etc...
I think the zed would make a great track car

[jontymo]

Really, until you know what the limits of your car are, I wouldn't bother too much. I'd always start with the brakes, anyway. Faffing with the suspension may make your car look cool, but you will spend more time trying to get the handling right than you will on the track.

yawn

You know the 3's are not the best handling cars in the world and need suspension and bush's sorting to get the best from them.

Actually, I don't.

So when i ask for advice i expected some decent responses from people on here who know what they are talking about, thats what is good about this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jontymo

[jontymo]

Id say the first thing to buy for tracking the zed would be a decent helmet! being a soft top an all... then brakes and coilover kit so you can adjust ride height etc...
I think the zed would make a great track car

Got the helmet already Liam from my biking days.

Will probably change the pads for Red or Yellow ebc just need so suss the suspension, 1 of the rear shocks is weeping a bit so may go for the spax kit to replace all and lower rather than coilovers as still want decent comfort on the road and to be honest can't be arsed with keeping on top of them like billz does with his.

[jontymo]

jon what about a rear brace as well

May well do the Wayne but will probably look at rebushing over winter 1st

[TaffZee]

Glad your going to keep the Zed Jon, just sold a set of Spax sport suspension

How about this meet on the 28th?

How come sold Jim, i thought you was putting it on yours!

Not sure on the 28th yet

Had a change of mind Jon, wanted to keep it original

[shantybeater]

A little harsh on spokey, he was only trying to help afterall!

I have to say though fitting coilovers to the Z transformed the car, coupled with H&R ARBs and decent strut braces ( front upper and lower and rear lower) the car will feel ten times more planted and you will lose a lot of that horrible body roll.

Don't skimp on the suspension though, your best non adjustable choice is bilsteins with h&r springs, tried and tested and very good. If the budget can stretch H&R coilovers or KW3V3's are the main contenders but expensive

As for brakes as mentioned above EBC red/yellow pads will be more than sufficient (assuming the brakes are the same or similar as the M)

Id also suggest ditching the seats in favour of buckets (if you can deal with the look) apparently the OEM seats weigh a silly amount!

[Guest]

I would fit a roll cage, will sort out the handling by stiffening up the car.............bear in mind Jeremy Clarkson reckoned the z3 Coupe was the best handling car he had ever driven, so the only difference between the two is the solid roof.

Then i would do:

Big brake upgrade and fluid change
coil overs
front strut brace
fire extinguisher - must
Proper race seats and harness
semi slicks
engine mods (various)
big throaty exhaust
NACA Ducts
Big Spoiler
Big Number on the Bonnet
Black tape for the head lights in a cross

Hope it helps

[jontymo]

A little harsh on spokey, he was only trying to help afterall!

I have to say though fitting coilovers to the Z transformed the car, coupled with H&R ARBs and decent strut braces ( front upper and lower and rear lower) the car will feel ten times more planted and you will lose a lot of that horrible body roll.

Don't skimp on the suspension though, your best non adjustable choice is bilsteins with h&r springs, tried and tested and very good. If the budget can stretch H&R coilovers or KW3V3's are the main contenders but expensive

As for brakes as mentioned above EBC red/yellow pads will be more than sufficient (assuming the brakes are the same or similar as the M)

Id also suggest ditching the seats in favour of buckets (if you can deal with the look) apparently the OEM seats weigh a silly amount!

Cheers Shanty, maybe i misread spokey but did come across as fly and he does'n't know me or my driving experience!!

I will have a look at what you recommended, what drop do you recommend, for springs.

and yes the oem seats weigh a freekin tonne but will live with them for now.

jontymo

[jontymo]

I would fit a roll cage, will sort out the handling by stiffening up the car.............bear in mind Jeremy Clarkson reckoned the z3 Coupe was the best handling car he had ever driven, so the only difference between the two is the solid roof.

Then i would do:

Big brake upgrade and fluid change
coil overs
front strut brace
fire extinguisher - must
Proper race seats and harness
semi slicks
engine mods (various)
big throaty exhaust
NACA Ducts
Big Spoiler
Big Number on the Bonnet
Black tape for the head lights in a cross

Hope it helps

Phew matey, would probably double the cost of my Z

But it did help LOL

[shantybeater]

Unfortunately my knowledge is limited to mainly the M spec which I believe is already slightly lower? Anything between 30 & 60mm depending on taste but obviously the lower you go the stiffer along with a harsher ride, its all about compromise . most sets of springs come as 30mm or 50mm for the Z so you may end up being forced with what the manufacturer supplies

What I will say though is if your budget won't stretch to coilovers you are far better off with a good set of shocks and springs, ive learnt this the hard way having bought cheap coilovers for a previous car, this gave both a bone shattering ride but I still had awful body roll and bottomed out frequently.

Have a good look at bilsteins (the ac schnitzer kits are actually rebranded bilsteins)

I think the normal Z3's have a far greater choice of suspension setups than the M so you will be spoilt for choice

Good luck with it all

[Jonttt]

I've never really done a track day in a standard road car but I think Spokeys advice is the most sound so far ie try the car on a track session first to see what areas you need to tackle first and if its suitable as a track car for you at all before you spending money out. That way you don't waste any cash and you can better judge any improvements made etc....

To me that would be the fun in my own track car ie judging he improvements in both my driving and car setup around the same track over time. Starting with a stock car would be my preference to do this properly. That way both you and the car can improve in time and keep up the enthusiasm ??

ps I think you'll find you need a helmet (which you can hire / get provided but if serious buy your own) and I'm not sure a bike helmet would be suitable ?

[jontymo]

I've never really done a track day in a standard road car but I think Spokeys advice is the most sound so far ie try the car on a track session first to see what areas you need to tackle first and if its suitable as a track car for you at all before you spending money out. That way you don't waste any cash and you can better judge any improvements made etc....

To me that would be the fun in my own track car ie judging he improvements in both my driving and car setup around the same track over time. Starting with a stock car would be my preference to do this properly. That way both you and the car can improve in time and keep up the enthusiasm ??

ps I think you'll find you need a helmet (which you can hire / get provided but if serious buy your own) and I'm not sure a bike helmet would be suitable ?

Cheers Jon, my helmet is a decent bike helmet but is full face, will have to do for now. i know from on the road the z has far to much body roll and needs stiffening and after my driving my new tts and the new fangled magride and all the gimmicks it has i want to get the cornering better before wallowing around a track. Will think about it and see what trackdays are coming up.

[RemarkLima]

Apologies if this comes across wrong, but not knowing your experience makes it hard to say.

But the best money I ever spent was on tuition, there was a point way back then, when I'd do 2 - 3 trackdays a month for a couple of years, and getting decent tuition was the best "upgrade" ever, you don't need to declare the mod to the insurers, it can be transferred to any car, anytime... You can even take it on holiday (hire cars *are* the fastest cars ever!)

Even if you've done a few, getting some advanced tuition can really knock things up a notch, then you do not need to upgrade the car as much to get the best from it.

Only other thing I'd realy insist on is decent brakes, never done any big brake conversions as personally I can't see the point, when decent fluid (you can always go for race fluid if it's still getting hot) and decent pads, yellow's are fine, or Pagid RS42's etc... And you should be able to lap all day without any fade.

The only other thing I used to consider was the cost of a mod vs. how much petrol / trackdays that would pay for

[jontymo]

Apologies if this comes across wrong, but not knowing your experience makes it hard to say.

But the best money I ever spent was on tuition, there was a point way back then, when I'd do 2 - 3 trackdays a month for a couple of years, and getting decent tuition was the best "upgrade" ever, you don't need to declare the mod to the insurers, it can be transferred to any car, anytime... You can even take it on holiday (hire cars *are* the fastest cars ever!)

Even if you've done a few, getting some advanced tuition can really knock things up a notch, then you do not need to upgrade the car as much to get the best from it.

Only other thing I'd realy insist on is decent brakes, never done any big brake conversions as personally I can't see the point, when decent fluid (you can always go for race fluid if it's still getting hot) and decent pads, yellow's are fine, or Pagid RS42's etc... And you should be able to lap all day without any fade.

The only other thing I used to consider was the cost of a mod vs. how much petrol / trackdays that would pay for

Good advice Lima, i will definately aim for some tuition, and it looks like yellow pads
Cheers

[Bench]

Tuition is a good point but until you get some confidence a waste imo.

Dont worry about engine mods, concentrate on tyres, brakes, wieght saving and suspension.

So far on my 328 we have done the following:

Stripped interior
Bucket Seats
Four point harensses
Uprated pads
Uprated discs
Brake ducts
Coil overs
ARB's
Drop links
Trakc rod ends
X brace

Importantly enusre you engine is runnning perfectly, no oil leaks, air leaks etc!!!

[RemarkLima]

Tuition is a good point but until you get some confidence a waste imo.

Personally (again, this is just my own opinion!) the tuition is just for that exactly, to give you the confidence, and to give you the ability to get the most from whatever you have, in any conditions... Otherwise, the temptation to go faster makes the whole thing just become a "point and squirt" exercise

It's just my opinion of course... I started my trackdays in a Mk1 MR2 with 220,000 miles on the clock so it far from refined! Soon I was able to keep up with most of the track toys out there with just road tyres and upgraded suspension... Then I upgraded to a S1 Exige and really had some fun! Then went back to the Mk1 MR2 and took it racing, even more fun!!

I should probably add the caveat that I've not been on a track for quite a few years, and have no doubt become slow yet again... But as the adage goes, "the older I get, the faster I was"

[msassoon]

I would say brakes is the place to start. Pads are good, but won't help with fade if they get seriously hot. Some grooved disks would help, don't think a big brake conversion is worth it until you have tried it on the track and grooved disks and uprated pads are not enough.

[Mike123]

I think you will have a lot of fun in your Z3 on track. You don't need to be the fastest or have the best handling car to get a great deal of satisfaction from driving well, and improving lap times.

I agree with Jonttt - start with a stock car, and find out about the car and yourself, improving both over time. I would change the pads to Yellow Stuff and change to DOT4 brake fluid, or you'll only last a couple of laps.

You want to keep a reasonable ride quality, so I'd hesitate before making major changes to the suspension. Front Polybushes and a front strut brace are well worth considering, and won't break the bank.

[Z3cade]

If you found after a few track days you fancyed alittle more power id recomend the Big Bore 325 Inlet manifold conversion.. Cheap power and you could do it yourself

[jontymo]

OK guys,

I will get some yellow pads fitted, brake fluid was done at the end of last year, front strut brace is already fitted.

Thinking of booking on a trackday at Anglesey on the Bank Holiday Monday

Anyone else fancy it?

[TaffZee]

Jon I will come along with you for a looksee.

Jim

[Ian Kelly]

I've done several track days in my previous car, an R1 engined Fisher Fury. I've not taken my Z3M on track, personal preference really, having done some spirited driving round Europe in it I recognise that its better as a road car, it's too heavy and wobbly compared to a lightweight car. Having said that, driving on a track is fun in any car, you learn loads about the car and about your driving.

My advice would be to start with free mods - weight reduction is favourite for me; tyres pressures are very important; a really good nut and bolt check over of brakes, steering and suspension is also free and helps with confidence in the car.

Then on to cheap stuff, like fresh brake fluid and a good bleed, and fresh oil \ filter if it isn't brand new, as you'll be at the top of the rev range a lot.

Next for me would definitely be brake pads, you'll probably be on track with cars that can stop a lot better than a Z on standard pads. Yellowstuff have proved pretty good for me in last 5k miles. If you're working on the brakes and can afford another £60, goodridge hoses will help with pedal feel as well.

After that you're into bigger money, like poly bushes and suspension, arb's, etc.

Bike helmets are usually fine, I've never been challenged with mine.

Have fun.

PS Anglesey is a brilliant and interesting track, if you get a sunny day you'll love it. If it's wet there's plenty of corners with big run off areas to experiment on.

[Bench]

Tuition is a good point but until you get some confidence a waste imo.

Personally (again, this is just my own opinion!) the tuition is just for that exactly, to give you the confidence, and to give you the ability to get the most from whatever you have, in any conditions... Otherwise, the temptation to go faster makes the whole thing just become a "point and squirt" exercise

What i was trying to say is that you need to get a couple of days under your belt before having training. I am on my third bout of traning and have done less than 10 track days in total. I think it takes three days to get your head straight, listen to what you are being told and consistently put it into practice.

Talking about trackdays think we should have a forum one lol.

[swamper]

Jon I will come along with you for a looksee.

Jim

same here...

[RemarkLima]

What i was trying to say is that you need to get a couple of days under your belt before having training. I am on my third bout of traning and have done less than 10 track days in total. I think it takes three days to get your head straight, listen to what you are being told and consistently put it into practice.

Talking about trackdays think we should have a forum one lol.

Yeah, that's true... Although even if you have a mate who can point you in the right direction that can help a bit, or do they still do the £20 tuition session just for one session / 5 or so laps?

Yeah, a forum trackday would be a cool, as said not been in ages so would be a good excuse!

[c_w]

As on the other forum brake pads as first thing to be changed otherwise it'll ruin your day. EBC Yellows all round. Brakefluid I would change to DOT 5.1 (available from Halfords), you could likely boil most DOT4s giving a spongey pedal.

[motco]

As on the other forum brake pads as first thing to be changed otherwise it'll ruin your day. EBC Yellows all round. Brakefluid I would change to DOT 5.1 (available from Halfords), you could likely boil most DOT4s giving a spongey pedal.

Just to raise this thread from the grave, I have to agree with the "do the brakes first" comments. I am used to doing track/airfield days in my Westfield which weighs only a smidgen over 600kg, but yesterday, for various reasons, I took my Z3 to Keevil. I had to stop before close of the day entirely due to brake worries when the pedal not only became 'long', but very spongy too. Nothing else was a worry at all, not handling nor performance. It's only a 2.2 Sport so I didn't expect to keep up with the exotica (GT2 and GT3, one Z4M, and a few M3s) but it was great fun anyway. The handling, much derided by those who repeat received 'wisdom', is nice and neutral with neither over nor understeer predominating. DSC 'off' allows the fundamental characteristics to be learned and although it's not a hardcore sports car, it acquits itself well. The only mild criticism is that it has more body roll than you would like, but it's no 2CV

[swamper]

any pics?

[motco]

any pics?

Unfortunately not. the official photographer didn't show up.

All I have is a couple of my son's Z4M Coupé that I managed to get from a great distance.

[peteslag]

I'm glad this thread has been revived as I'm thinking about doing a few track days next year. I've already researched brakes/suspension and I've got upgrades on the way, my only question is about tyres.

How much tyre wear can I expect? Obviously they are going to wear much more than they would with normal road use, but how severe is it? (i.e. am I going to ruin my expensive bridgestones in one day).

[swamper]

TBH jontymon and me went to the Anglesey track and spent the day there and there is no way my Zed would have stayed on track with some of them long corners,,,,its a hell of a place to test your car....for me it would be brakes and suspension both as equal...

however i did get a go out in this S/C rocket......top guy he was as well

[motco]

Ah that's a nice Westfield by the look of it. There's two, maybe three, reasons why it has a driver's side exhaust: 1. It's a Pinto engine like mine, 2. It's a V8 and there's another the other side. or 3. It's a Duratec engine. The last is the most likely unless it has the wild card option of a Cosworth which is a Pinto block with very different head. Mine is a great fun trackday machine but the Duratec/Cosworth ones are hairier than a hairy thing.

Edit: It's a 170bhp Duratec engined car with a Quaife 6 speed sequential box according to my research. That might not sound much power (Duratecs will exceed 200bhp with the right mods) but it probably weighs in at less than 600kg. Believe me, that will accelerate fast enough for you to need a G suit!

[RemarkLima]

How much tyre wear can I expect? Obviously they are going to wear much more than they would with normal road use, but how severe is it? (i.e. am I going to ruin my expensive bridgestones in one day).

If you're smooth then maybe 1mm... Maybe 2mm if you're out all day long.

If however, you're giving load of sideways action then you can be down to the canvas in a day

Also, it'll depend on the circuit, and temps... A hot airfield will destroy tyres (the tarmac is really abrasive!), while a cold & wet circuit will hardly wear a thing

Helpful eh

[swamper]

Ah that's a nice Westfield by the look of it. There's two, maybe three, reasons why it has a driver's side exhaust: 1. It's a Pinto engine like mine, 2. It's a V8 and there's another the other side. or 3. It's a Duratec engine. The last is the most likely unless it has the wild card option of a Cosworth which is a Pinto block with very different head. Mine is a great fun trackday machine but the Duratec/Cosworth ones are hairier than a hairy thing.

Edit: It's a 170bhp Duratec engined car with a Quaife 6 speed sequential box according to my research. That might not sound much power (Duratecs will exceed 200bhp with the right mods) but it probably weighs in at less than 600kg. Believe me, that will accelerate fast enough for you to need a G suit!

it is super charged as well
i think he said it was about 270 bhp.......

[motco]

Ah! Okay. I don't know the car and the WSCC site has nothing on it either. All I could find was a Youtube clip with appended notes. Getting the power down through two lightly loaded rear wheels might be a challenge! Donuts anyone?

[swamper]

when i was chatting to him hes was wanting to compare the times before he had it S/C....as you said getting the power down may have become an issue..

their forum...

http://www.trackaction-online.co.uk/php ... 08177f164b

[peteslag]

If you're smooth then maybe 1mm... Maybe 2mm if you're out all day long.

If however, you're giving load of sideways action then you can be down to the canvas in a day

Also, it'll depend on the circuit, and temps... A hot airfield will destroy tyres (the tarmac is really abrasive!), while a cold & wet circuit will hardly wear a thing

Helpful eh

Extremely helpful, thanks for that.

1 to 2mm of wear is very acceptable, Oulton park here I come!

[RemarkLima]

If you're smooth then maybe 1mm... Maybe 2mm if you're out all day long.

If however, you're giving load of sideways action then you can be down to the canvas in a day

Also, it'll depend on the circuit, and temps... A hot airfield will destroy tyres (the tarmac is really abrasive!), while a cold & wet circuit will hardly wear a thing

Helpful eh

Extremely helpful, thanks for that.

1 to 2mm of wear is very acceptable, Oulton park here I come!

Cool, go give it some beans

[motco]

For what it's worth, my son's Z4MC at Keevil last weekend was suffering overheated brakes at first. He found that with the DSC 'ON' the brakes became much hotter than with it off. The assumption was that the brakes were working hard to stabilise the car while it was being driven on the adhesion limit. Switch off and all was well on Yellowstuff pads.

[RemarkLima]

For what it's worth, my son's Z4MC at Keevil last weekend was suffering overheated brakes at first. He found that with the DSC 'ON' the brakes became much hotter than with it off. The assumption was that the brakes were working hard to stabilise the car while it was being driven on the adhesion limit. Switch off and all was well on Yellowstuff pads.

That's a very good point! Forgot as the S50 M Roadsters do not have DSC... The brakes would be going all over the shop and wouldn't get a rest!