Strong Strutt

Bloke · Post by **Bloke** » Mon 29 Dec, 2003 09:50

Hi there,

If financial considerations limit what you can buy

, which strutt would you recommend, the front or the rear?

thanks

Bloke

bmwstuff · Post by **bmwstuff** » Mon 29 Dec, 2003 15:48

go for the front strut brace first.
then butt strutt.
you will need the butt strutt to fit the bodybrace after that.

if moneys no object get the strongstrut otherwise eibach do one and its peanuts at ?150 or so and ship in uk too.

Hope that helps.
Dan
________
Ultimate Fighters

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Mon 29 Dec, 2003 20:33

I'll echo that sentiment.

Addictive stuff though, get the front and you'll really want the rear, get the rear and you'll be begging for the front!

Go that far and you're hooked.... Springs, dampers, body brace... Heaven. Who knew these cars could be SO good!

Can't recommend the front and rear struts from Paul's team at Strong Strut enough. Haven't tried other front struts though so.....

Bloke · Post by **Bloke** » Tue 30 Dec, 2003 12:53

I am very tempted, as the front strutt is £219 at today's exchange rate!!

Thanks for the advice, will post again when and if it arrives!! (very tempted)

Bloke

TonyCal · Post by **TonyCal** » Tue 30 Dec, 2003 16:24

The E-tech Strut Brace is only £125 + P&P. BM Heaven or Proven Products can supply.
Just fitted one to my 1.9 today, pictures will be on my web site very soon.

Bloke · Post by **Bloke** » Tue 30 Dec, 2003 17:14

Cheers Fella,

Happy New year!!

Bloke

Lorraine · Post by **Lorraine** » Wed 07 Jan, 2004 11:17

Hi Bloke,

I have the front strut and rear strut fitted, but my car is too low to fit the body brace.

As Bmwstuff mentioned, you need the rear strut to fit the body brace....let me know if you are interested.

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Thu 19 Feb, 2004 10:31

I already have a E-tech strut on order but have placed another order for a strong strut (competition alloy).

Open to reasonable offers...

MB

Kellstar · Post by **Kellstar** » Fri 22 Oct, 2004 00:50

I have a 2.8 1999 (46k miles) and am disapointed with the apparent front end uneven feeling paticularly at speed! I have seen the strutt brace adverts and found another one today htpp://midnightracer.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/892 for £135 for front - I would like some advice from those of you in the know as I want to do the job proper like!

However with the wider haunch rear and 245x17 alloys I dont think I have much room to lower the car so shocks and springs are out at the moment (if someone has ugraded the ZM I might be ineterested in buying the old one's though).

Thanks

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:15

Unsettled stability at speed (straight line) has as much do with aerodynamics than anything else.. which includes road height. Front end lift under the front slitter/undertray and pressure that builds up in the wheel arches due to the retro design.

Hence why there are so many designs for diffusers and front Aero flippers... the Zee4 does not suffer from this as the design was thoroughly wind tunnel tested and less dicated by aesthetics.

The only kits I know that have been properly wind tunnel tested are ACS, Zeemax, G Power and Hammann.

Kellstar · Post by **Kellstar** » Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:24

Thanks M BLUR - you opened up another area for my wallet! I will look up said kits know any good Websites to save alittle time

My main concern is the cars reaction when cornering on dual carriage way (A452 near to A45 intersection B'ham) it's a wide not so tight long bend with some undulating surfaces and I rwaly had to back off at 80mph - the car front end realy pitched and rolled to the point where I felt the back might break away

Probably wouldn't but only had the car 1 month so not as confident yet

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:29

Kellstar wrote:Thanks M BLUR - you opened up another area for my wallet! I will look up said kits know any good Websites to save alittle time

My main concern is the cars reaction when cornering on dual carriage way (A452 near to A45 intersection B'ham) it's a wide not so tight long bend with some undulating surfaces and I rwaly had to back off at 80mph - the car front end realy pitched and rolled to the point where I felt the back might break away Probably wouldn't but only had the car 1 month so not as confident yet

Hmm..

I recall there has been mention of different tyres combos producing unsettled handling but the pitch and roll would certainly indicate the need for some struts. As for aerodynamics - any lift will reduce the effectiveness of grip tho I can't comment directly on the non-M set-up. Bump steer and the sensation of an active rear axle is common trait to all Zees, bar Z8 from what I know, and to a lesser degree the Z4. Could anyone else help Kellstar on this..?

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Sun 24 Oct, 2004 12:36

Kellstar wrote:Thanks M BLUR - you opened up another area for my wallet! I will look up said kits know any good Websites to save alittle time

My main concern is the cars reaction when cornering on dual carriage way (A452 near to A45 intersection B'ham) it's a wide not so tight long bend with some undulating surfaces and I rwaly had to back off at 80mph - the car front end realy pitched and rolled to the point where I felt the back might break away Probably wouldn't but only had the car 1 month so not as confident yet

I thikn that is a general problem with the early non-M Z3s, that they were very American-orientated, softer riding etc it wasn't until the later 2.2/3.0s came out when they offered sports suspension and stiffer body(?) etc. My 2.8 to me use too underdamped and is most noticeable above 70mph. At lower speeds it turns in really well and feels quite nimble but does feel too soft and wollowy at higher speeds.

Fitting strut braces etc shouldn't make the car unbalanced IMO otherwise you would be saying the flexibiltiy of the shell contributes to the suspension which is pretty dodgy. Bracing the chassis should let the suspension do its job better, but the 2.8 is still too soft and underdamped in standard form to be amazing handling.

Big Mr P · Post by **Big Mr P** » Tue 26 Oct, 2004 20:36

M Blur wrote:
Kellstar wrote:Thanks M BLUR - you opened up another area for my wallet! I will look up said kits know any good Websites to save alittle time

My main concern is the cars reaction when cornering on dual carriage way (A452 near to A45 intersection B'ham) it's a wide not so tight long bend with some undulating surfaces and I rwaly had to back off at 80mph - the car front end realy pitched and rolled to the point where I felt the back might break away Probably wouldn't but only had the car 1 month so not as confident yet
Hmm.. I recall there has been mention of different tyres combos producing unsettled handling but the pitch and roll would certainly indicate the need for some struts. As for aerodynamics - any lift will reduce the effectiveness of grip tho I can't comment directly on the non-M set-up. Bump steer and the sensation of an active rear axle is common trait to all Zees, bar Z8 from what I know, and to a lesser degree the Z4. Could anyone else help Kellstar on this..?

I must agree with M Blur this sounds like a front strut would help and for the price of them if you intend to push the car its worth a first try.

as for aerodynamics this is about speed, My hamman kit, which has been tunnel tested, doesn't do alot below 60 Mph (only looks good). So yes on a long undulating bend at 80 it should be working well but I feel without my front strut brace it could be wasted.

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Wed 27 Oct, 2004 09:02

Big Mr P wrote:
I must agree with M Blur this sounds like a front strut would help and for the price of them if you intend to push the car its worth a first try.

as for aerodynamics this is about speed, My hamman kit, which has been tunnel tested, doesn't do alot below 60 Mph (only looks good). So yes on a long undulating bend at 80 it should be working well but I feel without my front strut brace it could be wasted.

My learned friend is quite correct.. ground effects only start to work at higher speeds while cornerning stability is more quickly addressed by adding stiffness to the front end, rear or both. As for high speed stability - seek out a kit tha has been tunnel tested like Hammann, Zeemax, G Power or ACS.

Malbec · Post by **Malbec** » Wed 27 Oct, 2004 10:53

While on this subject, will I have a problem closing the bonnet/hood if I fit one to my 3.0i ?

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Wed 27 Oct, 2004 12:10

Malbec wrote:While on this subject, will I have a problem closing the bonnet/hood if I fit one to my 3.0i ?

In each kit you get some plastacine.. this is so you can tweak the bonnet adjusters to get a good fit. This is described in the strong strut instructions...

Always

BartS · Post by **BartS** » Wed 27 Oct, 2004 13:36

IMHO, a strut is one of the best investments you can make for your zed, if you dont want to fork out $400 for a strong strut, you can source less expensive but still very effective front struts for a lot less money

I got myself a Sparco front strut, bought here on this forum from a ex-zedder for £75 (new about £150)

they do come for sale on this site occastionally, otherwise google a sparco z3 strut and you'll find plenty of suppliers.

bonnet clearance in my case (3.0) is not an issue/problem

good luck, you will not regret the investment

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Wed 27 Oct, 2004 13:53

For similar money to the Strong Strut you can also buy top struts from Dinan, Hartge and G Power. For a bit more cash you can have an MK Motorsport CF strut.

I have found the Strong Strut to be excellent and I reckon few would be able to discren the differences. Of course if you spend a lot of money on the set-up then small differences can add up.

The strut Tim is selling is a bargain against the new cost.. if you want..I'll happily sell you mine for much less so I can buy Tim's.. if it is still for sale that is..

or indeed so I can buy a more expensive carbon strut.

PM if you want to haggle..

M Roaster · Post by **M Roaster** » Wed 27 Oct, 2004 14:05

I got a CL lightweight strut brace for sale I'll do 40% off new price if any of you is interested please contact me on the following email:

francisco.santos@jrsantos.pt

Cheers
Francisco

AndyW · Post by **AndyW** » Thu 28 Oct, 2004 17:38

Hi all,

I have been a proud owner for just less than a month now and am thoroughly enjoying the car.

I have found out lots of useful info by reading the forum so thanks to all you guys for sharing your knowledge.

Based on all the good things I have read am considering getting a strut brace. Before I do can anyone please help with answers to the following queries?

Does fitting a front strut brace constitute a modification for insurance purposes? If so does it affect premiums significantly?

I believe that installation is easy but I know myself to well to let me near my pride and joy with tools of any kind just yet. Seriously - I even managed to lock myself (whilst alone in the house) in the bathroom by shutting the door mid way through attempting to change a door handle!

Therefore does anyone know of any companies who will supply and fit (at reasonable cost) in the Greater Manchester / North Cheshire area?

Cheers

AndyW

rayl · Post by **rayl** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 09:39

AndyW, At least you picked the right room to lock yourself into - for obvious reasons.
You make a good point about insurance companies, and the only answer is to ask them, by writing, not telephone.
AS for fitting your strut brace, any local garage from someone’s personal recommendation, would do it. I would stay and watch, and if the fitting involves the use of a hammer, go else ware!!

Ray

AndyW · Post by **AndyW** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 09:52

Thanks for your advice Ray

I will do a bit of research. I guess getting one fitted might also affect my BMW warranty?

Anyone had any experience of this or with their insurance Company?

Andy

DavidM · Post by **DavidM** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 10:39

Andy - we have had struts on all three roadsters - our BMW Stealer did not bat an eyelid regarding them - the technicians noticed them and have commented on how the turn-in is improved, etc

In both cases we told the insurance companies and it made not a jot of difference

AndyW · Post by **AndyW** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 11:28

Thanks David - thats very good to know.

Will run it by my insurers before I go ahead but looks like there's no good reason not to!

ZZZEMMCO · Post by **ZZZEMMCO** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 11:59

AndyW , As has been posted before, fitting a strut is a Safety item.Making the car more stable and less risk for Insurance purpose,s.

You should ask for a reduction in Premium,s.

AndyW · Post by **AndyW** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 13:52

ZZZEMMCO wrote:AndyW , As has been posted before, fitting a strut is a Safety item.Making the car more stable and less risk for Insurance purpose,s.

You should ask for a reduction in Premium,s.

Very true! but what are the chances of that?

More likely they will take it as a sign that I spend my weekends recreating scenes from "The Fast and the Furious" - whilst blindfolded and with large knives strapped to the radiator grill.

rayl · Post by **rayl** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 13:59

The point about telling your insurance company is in the small print, notification of any modifications etc. You give them an excuse not to pay out in the event of a claim and they will grasp it with both hands.

Ray

TonyCal · Post by **TonyCal** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 14:56

AndyW wrote: scenes from "The Fast and the Furious" - whilst blindfolded and with large knives strapped to the radiator grill.

No Andy that was Deathrace 2000 not fast and furious

AndyW · Post by **AndyW** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 15:42

TonyCal wrote:
AndyW wrote: scenes from "The Fast and the Furious" - whilst blindfolded and with large knives strapped to the radiator grill.
No Andy that was Deathrace 2000 not fast and furious

...or Herbie Goes Psychotic!

exdos · Post by **exdos** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 18:52

I've got an S54 M Coupe which I believe is 2.6 times stiffer than the MR. I've fitted StrongStrut's front-strut and butt-strut and the difference to the handling is tremendous, therefore, I would expect any of the Z3s the effect must be VERY noticeable. I notified my Insurance Co that I've fitted them and got them to acknowledge in writing the fact that I'd notified them, and with no increase in premium.

A very cost effective mod, and the Chrome front-strut looks brilliant when the bonnet is lifted

AndyW · Post by **AndyW** » Fri 29 Oct, 2004 19:55

Thanks Exdos - Definately sounds like its time to get the cheque book out again!

OliZ · Post by **OliZ** » Sat 30 Oct, 2004 09:14

ZZZEMMCO wrote:AndyW , As has been posted before, fitting a strut is a Safety item.Making the car more stable and less risk for Insurance purpose,s.

Talking about security... what I always wondered is: What impact does the strut have in case of a crash? I mean, it's a pretty hefty piece of metal that wasn't taken into account in the original crash tests.

ZZZEMMCO · Post by **ZZZEMMCO** » Sat 30 Oct, 2004 12:57

I am Not a structural Motor Engineer, But-- if you have a Metal TIE, between two points, there is more rigidity & restraint from a side or front impact., than fresh air between the tops of the shocker turrets.

Maybe Robin can tell you like it is, after his "Off", he was asking all the info on Struts, so time ago.

I see it as something like a reinforcement bar in the car doors, in case of side impacts

----But much more strength .

TonyCal · Post by **TonyCal** » Sat 30 Oct, 2004 13:15

ZZZEMMCO wrote:I am Not a structural Motor Engineer, But-- if you have a Metal TIE, between two points, there is more rigidity & restraint from a side or front impact., than fresh air between the tops of the shocker turrets.

Maybe Robin can tell you like it is, after his "Off", he was asking all the info on Struts, so time ago.

I see it as something like a reinforcement bar in the car doors, in case of side impacts ----But much more strength .

Yes it has to be stronger in the event of a frontal impact IMHO but it would transfer some of the impact force to the other side in the event of for instance a hit on the o/s/f quarter. there could be damage to the n/s/f strut tower too. Without the brace all the damage would be on the o/s.

ZZZEMMCO · Post by **ZZZEMMCO** » Sun 31 Oct, 2004 10:23

Perhaps BMW AG have been scanning this topic

The New 3 series specification , states that "some notable developments including a New crossmember in the load bearing structure"increases stiffness by 25%

Kellstar · Post by **Kellstar** » Mon 01 Nov, 2004 00:08

Thanks guys just returned from Spain for the week so been slow to follow all chat links - I have ordered Front and Rear strong strut from US @ $775 with 1.78 exchange rate from Paypal - £435 so thought in the end the extra few quid was worth it for what looks like the best spec! Particularly with the $ exchange (did not get very good Euro rate in Spain though!! only 1.38) - Should have gone on holiday to US and picked the bugger up myself

I did see a Schnitzer M3 in one of those aitrport raffles that had a strut brace fitted on it so think that the idea must be worthy for all cars. I have asked strong strut for comments on impact issues (from refference front impact should not be much of an issue as crumple zones should not change side impact may be interesting though

) lets see what strong strut say

Will keep you posted of results in few days

OliZ · Post by **OliZ** » Mon 01 Nov, 2004 17:43

Kellstar wrote:I have asked strong strut for comments on impact issues (from refference front impact should not be much of an issue as crumple zones should not change side impact may be interesting though )

I wonder what they'll tell you. IMO, the strut could prevent the engine from properly tilting in case of a crash, and therefore not diving under the body but intruding into the passenger cell.

exdos · Post by **exdos** » Fri 05 Nov, 2004 20:29

I had my M Coupe in the garage yesterday to sort out the squeaking clutch pedal. I was loaned a BMW 520 for the day. It had considerable oversteer and a check under the bonnet revealed that it comes fitted with a factory installed front strut brace.

The design of this strut is that it is a tubular piece of metal (about 1" diameter) attached to just one of the screw mountings on each of the two suspension towers and the brace does not join the 2 suspension towers to each other, directly, instead the brace from each tower is connected diagonally to the bulkhead behind the dash.

Since the brace invloves some degree of triangulation (the strongest mechanical configuration) then in the case of lateral collision, then it is possible that the strength of the configuration may cause some distortion to parts other than the front wings, if the tubular strut does not bend under impact.

Just thought I'd tell y'all how BMW does it.

OliZ · Post by **OliZ** » Fri 05 Nov, 2004 21:16

exdos wrote:Just thought I'd tell y'all how BMW does it.

Well, they want to sell as many new cars as they can, don't they

(what a great way to increase the potential number of write offs for a lot of different impact angles... I bet the insurance for 5 series will soon climb a lot)

PS: 520 with "considerable oversteer"? How to acheive that?

exdos · Post by **exdos** » Fri 05 Nov, 2004 21:30

OliZ wrote:
exdos wrote:Just thought I'd tell y'all how BMW does it.
PS: 520 with "considerable oversteer"? How to acheive that?

Don't believe me? Try one. Just remeber to keep your foot to the floor when you corner

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