Was just wondering what peoples reaction were regarding a post I have read in reply to me saying I own an X5 & Z3. The comments below were made by an X5 owner?
I will don my flame suit now for fear of upsetting Z3 owners, but on my numerous visits to BMW Munich and BMW Welt (my company is a supplier of Enterprise software to them globally), I was told "off the record" that the Z3 was something of a "blot" on the BMW family tree and would subsequently be fixed by a replacement which took the line more upmarket and regained the driver focus (now known to be the Z4).
Real World: When I was considering helping my other half purchase her new car back in 2002/2003 we visited 2 BMW dealers, whom I have good relations with. In fact one of them (Benham Wolverhampton) has just become the biggest dealership facility in the UK believe it or not, with a very impressive new building in the city centre. Anyway, both salespeople in said dealerships told us we were better off sticking with the MX5 we had at the time as it was )quote) "a much better car"!! I couldnt believe it either - of course theyt then tried to sell us a 3 series conv!
Now, dont take this as me "having a go" I am not at all. I LOVE the Z3M Coupe (bakers van!) and enjoy driving my best buddies when he is going home from the local! Plus BMW did shift more than enough of them for it to be deemed a sales success. But in BMW circles this car is one they all seem to want to forget.
Z3 haters ( - :
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whiteminks
- Joined: Tue 26 Sep, 2006 09:58
- Posts: 2768
- Location: Lincoln
I suspect some dealers will say that to get you to purchase the latest model.
I think time will tell when the Z3 ages a lot more gracefully than the outgoing Z4.
We all know by now that the out-going Z4 had controversial looks and although the handling was good, there are still better handling sports cars out there.
The fact is many classic car buyers realise that the standard set up in an older car is not always going to be world beating. The 'feel' and look of the car and the aesthetic appeal mean a lot more to me than perfect handling.
Having said that the early Lotus Elan was fabulous for its time in both handling and looks. Just a shame Lotus wasn't/isn't renowned for its reliability.
I think time will tell when the Z3 ages a lot more gracefully than the outgoing Z4.
We all know by now that the out-going Z4 had controversial looks and although the handling was good, there are still better handling sports cars out there.
The fact is many classic car buyers realise that the standard set up in an older car is not always going to be world beating. The 'feel' and look of the car and the aesthetic appeal mean a lot more to me than perfect handling.
Having said that the early Lotus Elan was fabulous for its time in both handling and looks. Just a shame Lotus wasn't/isn't renowned for its reliability.
big cheesy wrote:'I nearly cacked my trolleys till I quickly tuned in'. Yorkshire Cruise 2008.
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
- Posts: 1210
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- Location: Bracknell
Z3 does have a poor reputation but mainly from people that have never ever placed themselves behind the wheel.
I think its a fantastic machine all round - perhaps a bit on the girly side - but the sound, feel, and handling are just perfect.
MX5 I have never understood, I think its an absolute dog of a car. Slow, and typical cheap plastic interior from the usual Japanese.
I will own one again, without a doubt
I think its a fantastic machine all round - perhaps a bit on the girly side - but the sound, feel, and handling are just perfect.
MX5 I have never understood, I think its an absolute dog of a car. Slow, and typical cheap plastic interior from the usual Japanese.
I will own one again, without a doubt
When I bought my Z3 in 2001 I checked out it's competition at the time, and there was nothing to touch it IMHO for looks performance and value for money....................oh and it was a BMW which from previous experiences meant it was a reliable quality car.
With regard to Benhams of Wolverhampton, my experience of them was not good especially after they told me that I had to buy from them because I lived in their "catchment area".
Needless to say they missed out on the sale.
I swapped it for a Z4 last year simply because of the great deal I got, and I love the car, but it doesn't take anything away from the Z3 which has a unique character of its own, and I for one wouldn't knock it.
With regard to Benhams of Wolverhampton, my experience of them was not good especially after they told me that I had to buy from them because I lived in their "catchment area".
Needless to say they missed out on the sale.
I swapped it for a Z4 last year simply because of the great deal I got, and I love the car, but it doesn't take anything away from the Z3 which has a unique character of its own, and I for one wouldn't knock it.
Look at an MX5 and I bet you have no opinion on its looks it's just 'alright', it blends in.
Look at a Z3 and you love it or hate it, that's opinion
Look at a Z3 and you love it or hate it, that's opinion
Gazza
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
If you look around at most of the great collectable/loved cars you will find they are kept and enjoyed because of their little idiosyncrasies and faults.
This is what makes a car interesting, you wont find many of the modern cars becoming classics because they are very reliable, quiet, efficient, comfortable, safe, do everything for you and bore you to tears. The z3 has more feel than most similar "modern" mass produced sports and touring convertibles. IMHO after driving the Z4M (which my dealer raves over), and being dissapointed in its lack of road feel, I prefer the raw skitishness and on the edge feel of the Z3. The 4 is better handling, faster, and has a great softop, all the products of development, but not as "alive" as the 3. Every car has its limitations so enjoy them to the max. (My personal views only).
This is what makes a car interesting, you wont find many of the modern cars becoming classics because they are very reliable, quiet, efficient, comfortable, safe, do everything for you and bore you to tears. The z3 has more feel than most similar "modern" mass produced sports and touring convertibles. IMHO after driving the Z4M (which my dealer raves over), and being dissapointed in its lack of road feel, I prefer the raw skitishness and on the edge feel of the Z3. The 4 is better handling, faster, and has a great softop, all the products of development, but not as "alive" as the 3. Every car has its limitations so enjoy them to the max. (My personal views only).
Don't drink and drive home -
Take the Zd and fly home -
Take the Zd and fly home -
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
- Posts: 1210
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- Location: Bracknell
No thats an opinion I also share. I had a Z4 (this is not a Z4 flame, just comparing to a "modern" sports car) for a week or so while the Z3 was in for some bodywork repair - and yes it was quicker and much easier to drive quickly, held the road better and overall felt more luxurious. Also the remote dropping of the hood was awesome 
But I couldnt wait to get back in the Z3... just a totally different experience. You change the gears, you turn the wheel, and not when a computer decides to do it (which is what the Z4 felt like) - and on the whole the driving experience was way above.
But I couldnt wait to get back in the Z3... just a totally different experience. You change the gears, you turn the wheel, and not when a computer decides to do it (which is what the Z4 felt like) - and on the whole the driving experience was way above.
It was when the Z4 came out that I decided that my April 1999 pre-facelift 2.8 was a ‘keeper.’ I have had it from new (as a second car, summer-use only), and it celebrates its tenth birthday on Monday when I am treating the rear alloys to a refurb.
I took a Z4 out for a drive when it was launched, and I really couldn’t see any justification for changing, especially as I wasn’t (and still am not) convinced about the styling. I decided to stick with what I had already decided was a car which I thoroughly enjoyed driving and owning, and to use the money I would have lost on trade-in (I paid £31,500 OTR for it) to keep the Z3 in tip-top condition.
Looking ahead, I think the Z3 is more likely to acquire classic status than the Z4. I feel slightly vindicated in that, especially from the side-on view, the ‘new’ Z4 owes as much if not more to the styling of the Z3 and its distinctive ‘retro’ look than to the current Z4.
I took a Z4 out for a drive when it was launched, and I really couldn’t see any justification for changing, especially as I wasn’t (and still am not) convinced about the styling. I decided to stick with what I had already decided was a car which I thoroughly enjoyed driving and owning, and to use the money I would have lost on trade-in (I paid £31,500 OTR for it) to keep the Z3 in tip-top condition.
Looking ahead, I think the Z3 is more likely to acquire classic status than the Z4. I feel slightly vindicated in that, especially from the side-on view, the ‘new’ Z4 owes as much if not more to the styling of the Z3 and its distinctive ‘retro’ look than to the current Z4.
the term 'parts bin car' brings a smile to my face! I personally don't think it's necessarily a bad thing as at the time some of the items in the parts bin were:
* E30 rear suspension (the same as used in the E30 M3 - which when launched was widely regarded as the best handling car you could buy - advances in technology have since improved things further with multi link rear suspension etc - but still not a bad base to work from)
* Full range of BMW engines - although initially the Z3 was only available with the 4 cylinder engines - this was the only point that was really criticised by the motoring press - this was rectified with the introduction of the 6 cylinders which perfectly suited rag top motoring
* E36 dash (classy and uncluttered just like a roadster/sports car should be)
* Mtech sports steering wheel (same as E36 M3)
Not bad going for a parts bin car! - LOL!!
Plus like has been said before I think the Z3 is (and will ) stand the test of time better than some of it's stable mates. You can kind of draw a comparison with MK1 MX5's where this is the model that true MX5 enthusiasts always go for as despite the MK2 and MK3 being introduced and being more refined - none eclipsed the original.
I personally don't think it's necessarily a bad thing as at the time some of the items in the parts bin were:* E30 rear suspension (the same as used in the E30 M3 - which when launched was widely regarded as the best handling car you could buy - advances in technology have since improved things further with multi link rear suspension etc - but still not a bad base to work from)
* Full range of BMW engines - although initially the Z3 was only available with the 4 cylinder engines - this was the only point that was really criticised by the motoring press - this was rectified with the introduction of the 6 cylinders which perfectly suited rag top motoring
* E36 dash (classy and uncluttered just like a roadster/sports car should be)
* Mtech sports steering wheel (same as E36 M3)
Not bad going for a parts bin car! - LOL!!
Plus like has been said before I think the Z3 is (and will ) stand the test of time better than some of it's stable mates. You can kind of draw a comparison with MK1 MX5's where this is the model that true MX5 enthusiasts always go for as despite the MK2 and MK3 being introduced and being more refined - none eclipsed the original.
Absolutely. I saw an original MX5 with the pop-up headlights in Sheffield the other day - it was absolutely immaculate.pangster wrote:You can kind of draw a comparison with MK1 MX5's where this is the model that true MX5 enthusiasts always go for as despite the MK2 and MK3 being introduced and being more refined - none eclipsed the original.
In fact, you can draw a comparison over the years with almost any sports car you care to mention. Take, just by way of example, a Triumph TR4. I bet when that came out, it was lauded as the best thing since sliced bread, with this refinement and that improvement over the TR3. But which is the more desirable now? MGB versus MGA also comes to mind. In both cases, the newer model might have been more refined and sophisticated, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the older model wasn't (and still is) just as much (if not more) fun to own.
Before I brought my M I tried a Boxster that I found my head poking over the top of the screen no matter how I adjusted the seat. I then tried a S2000 which was a nice drive but needed thrashing to get the best out of it as it was gutless below 6000rpm and did was not the keen on the body style. My misses ruled out a TT roadster and then I looked at a Z4 but was not to sure.
By chance really I looked over the Z3M, looking over the long bonnet lines of retro classics and the retro interior I was in love. After a looking at a couple a bargined a good price on one that just needs some attention to corner scuffs and wheels refurbing. I know that it supposed to not be the best handling car out there but I found no problems with it in the dry and from experience of other rear wheelers a bit of caution is required in the wet but is fun to dry. I love the torque that allows me to chug along in town without the need to bother changing gears all the time, but does have good performance for some more spirited driving. My only gripe is that I'm only of average height and just found it could do with another couple or inches of leg room so I could tilt the seat backrest further and despite my brother tease of owning a hair dressers car I'm smitten. I've only owned it a couple of months but have had several 'nice car' comments.
By chance really I looked over the Z3M, looking over the long bonnet lines of retro classics and the retro interior I was in love. After a looking at a couple a bargined a good price on one that just needs some attention to corner scuffs and wheels refurbing. I know that it supposed to not be the best handling car out there but I found no problems with it in the dry and from experience of other rear wheelers a bit of caution is required in the wet but is fun to dry. I love the torque that allows me to chug along in town without the need to bother changing gears all the time, but does have good performance for some more spirited driving. My only gripe is that I'm only of average height and just found it could do with another couple or inches of leg room so I could tilt the seat backrest further and despite my brother tease of owning a hair dressers car I'm smitten. I've only owned it a couple of months but have had several 'nice car' comments.
RE: MX-5
I had a 1998 the last of the MK1's with the pop-ups.
1.8 with 130bhp
Fantastic, such a well balanced car, and probably the one I miss the most.
My Zed would obliterate it on the straights, but that little Mazda could go flat out through most corners (I had lowered it by 30mm 15" split rims with deep dish rears). Steering was lovely too.
Friend of mine had one with a Jackson Racing Supercharger fitted. An absolute hooooooot.
I'd have another MK1 tomorrow. In the same way I'd have another small bumper MK2 16v Golf the day after.
BTW: I like the raw feel of the Z3. Smells of petrol and engine note is perfect and exhaust raspy.
I had a 1998 the last of the MK1's with the pop-ups.
1.8 with 130bhp
Fantastic, such a well balanced car, and probably the one I miss the most.
My Zed would obliterate it on the straights, but that little Mazda could go flat out through most corners (I had lowered it by 30mm 15" split rims with deep dish rears). Steering was lovely too.
Friend of mine had one with a Jackson Racing Supercharger fitted. An absolute hooooooot.
I'd have another MK1 tomorrow. In the same way I'd have another small bumper MK2 16v Golf the day after.
BTW: I like the raw feel of the Z3. Smells of petrol and engine note is perfect and exhaust raspy.
Silver Z3 3Litre " gone 
"
"I have to say that as much as I love the Z3 it's not actually that good.
Steering is almost completely without feel - and the wheel is too big, there's far too much flex in the chassis and it doesn't handle very well.
HOWEVER, for the last week and the next 3 days I have/will be driving an RX-8 which I have on loan. It's faster, more responsive, handles beautifully, has informative steering, better seats, better brakes - the list could go on.................but I'm really looking forward to getting back in my z3 because it has charisma and lots of it. that lovely noise and the way it makes you feel - it isn't all about the best ride/handling/speed etc.
Steering is almost completely without feel - and the wheel is too big, there's far too much flex in the chassis and it doesn't handle very well.
HOWEVER, for the last week and the next 3 days I have/will be driving an RX-8 which I have on loan. It's faster, more responsive, handles beautifully, has informative steering, better seats, better brakes - the list could go on.................but I'm really looking forward to getting back in my z3 because it has charisma and lots of it. that lovely noise and the way it makes you feel - it isn't all about the best ride/handling/speed etc.
I would disagree with the above r.e. the weight and feel of the steering. It's probably one of the best things about the Z3 IMHO.. like every other BMW I've driven it's on the slightly heavier side of light with a good degree of accuracy to it due to its quick rack.. I have an Mtek steering wheel in mine (which I think is the same as they stuck in the E36 M3) and it's probably a little bigger than I would have liked but nowhere near lorry like in feel or application and in anycase it's something that can always be changed - I think you can actually get a RAID aftermarket wheel for it which comes with an airbag.. everything else you've mentioned can also be tackled with after market parts.ohrsome wrote:I have to say that as much as I love the Z3 it's not actually that good.
Steering is almost completely without feel - and the wheel is too big, there's far too much flex in the chassis and it doesn't handle very well.
HOWEVER, for the last week and the next 3 days I have/will be driving an RX-8 which I have on loan. It's faster, more responsive, handles beautifully, has informative steering, better seats, better brakes - the list could go on.................but I'm really looking forward to getting back in my z3 because it has charisma and lots of it. that lovely noise and the way it makes you feel - it isn't all about the best ride/handling/speed etc.
RX8's (although they are good cars) aren't really comparable with a Z3 in anycase as it's not even a 2 seater roadster - it's like comparing apples with oranges.. if you're going to draw any comparisons at least compare like for like i.e. Mazda MX5, Toyota MR2, Porsche Boxter, Merc SLK, Fiat Barchetta etc
Actually I think it's fair to compare steering feel from different classes of car - yes the RX-8 is a four seater but it does have lovely steering feel. The Z3 has a very nice weight to the steering but absolutely no feel. Steering can be light with feel and also heavy without feel. Weight and feel are quite different. Drive a car with nice steering then drive the Z3 and it's quite apparent.
I also have the M-tech wheel.
I also have the M-tech wheel.
You can make a case BMW has struggled to deliver a really good modern roadster. For all the charm, each generation has failed in at least one or two significant areas*.
Additionally I think BMW has never managed to position their roadsters in a coherent way, confusing fans and neutrals alike. BMW's most successful vehicles; critically and commercially, have a very clear identity. Perhaps this time BMW has succeed with the E89 in this respect, albeit at the expense of driver appeal; according to the early reviews.
From a purely personal perspective, I've felt disappointed that buying a Z has often meant trading quality and attention to detail in comparison to BMW's series vehicles. In particular, compared to the: E46 ///M3; E6x ///M5; and E9x ///M3, the E85 Z4 ///M Roadster feels somewhat underdeveloped as an ///M variant.
*I've driven a selection of Z3s Z4s and one Z8. I've not driven the E89 or Z1.
Additionally I think BMW has never managed to position their roadsters in a coherent way, confusing fans and neutrals alike. BMW's most successful vehicles; critically and commercially, have a very clear identity. Perhaps this time BMW has succeed with the E89 in this respect, albeit at the expense of driver appeal; according to the early reviews.
From a purely personal perspective, I've felt disappointed that buying a Z has often meant trading quality and attention to detail in comparison to BMW's series vehicles. In particular, compared to the: E46 ///M3; E6x ///M5; and E9x ///M3, the E85 Z4 ///M Roadster feels somewhat underdeveloped as an ///M variant.
*I've driven a selection of Z3s Z4s and one Z8. I've not driven the E89 or Z1.
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
- Posts: 1210
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Disagree with the RX-8, I could quite happily not be embarassed by my mates 225 version, its only quick when you rev the b******* out of it, which is impossible to do most of the timeohrsome wrote:I have to say that as much as I love the Z3 it's not actually that good.
Steering is almost completely without feel - and the wheel is too big, there's far too much flex in the chassis and it doesn't handle very well.
HOWEVER, for the last week and the next 3 days I have/will be driving an RX-8 which I have on loan. It's faster, more responsive, handles beautifully, has informative steering, better seats, better brakes - the list could go on.................but I'm really looking forward to getting back in my z3 because it has charisma and lots of it. that lovely noise and the way it makes you feel - it isn't all about the best ride/handling/speed etc.
The feel, balance and poise of the Z3 is fantastic, but at higher speeds I agree its less composed, and can be a bit twitchy. But you can handle the oversteer beautifully.
Also bit unfair to compare cars designed and made in different decades
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PhoenixCoupe
- Joined: Wed 02 May, 2007 00:46
- Posts: 739
- Location: Mars
"There's no replacement for displacement", actually.PhoenixCoupe wrote:The Rx8 doesn't have a lot of torque and you really have to hammer it to get it to go - same as the S2000.
I guess Mr Shelby was right when he said there's no replacement for cubic inches...
Ciao,
Spokey
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW
do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
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PhoenixCoupe
- Joined: Wed 02 May, 2007 00:46
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Apologies for being late to contibute but so much said and feel qualified to comment.
Engine fine if rev's kept in range & can be faster than some Z3's but not all.......In real world road driving more depends on the driver & luck of draw as to not finding the next procession of sheep who think sensible progressive overtakes are evil. I havent driven a 3.0i or a Z3M but wouldnt expect to shame either in an RX-8. I dont find the Z3 to be a dire experience - biggest downfall being the odd jolt at the front from odd potholes mid bend albeit we know brace(s) can help. The Z3 ( Which I appreciate you also speak well of), gives me more peace of mind in ownership, (RX-8 not much fun when getting powerloss on an overtake, flooded engine in morning & low ,[real world], mpg relative to others in class).
As for comments by others - Havent driven an S2000 though must do so at some point- rev's for spirited progress not an issue for me. RWD and lack of computers are appealing.......I loved driving my MK1 MR2 (a car which in my opinion is superior to drive than the Mk1 MX-5). S2000 is a great looking car though with styling aspects of Z3 & RX-8 though IMO the Z3 has some of the nicest lines of most roadsters of since mid 90's. (Sorry Chris B).
We own an E53 X5 4.4 sport as well as the Z3 2.2.BenZ3-2.0 wrote:Was just wondering what peoples reaction were regarding a post I have read in reply to me saying I own an X5 & Z3..
Owned a Mk1 pop up light 1.6 1993 MX-5 SE(2)..............Great little car something satifying about driving a car you have to work hard and drive well to get the best out of. First one I drove was a brand new MK1 1.6 LE and I recall at the time I thought it was the best car I had ever driven....very nice sterring, responsive chassis nice gearchange and overall a well balanced package. (IMO not as smooth or refined to live with everyday as the Z3 though)LEX77 wrote:RE: MX-5
I had a 1998 the last of the MK1's with the pop-ups.
For road use I find the steering perfectly acceptable, (less vague than the PAS on my MK1 MX-5), only small criticism being it could benefit from being a bit tiny bit more positive around 12 o'clock though this seldom affects my driving. Steering wheel is big but so was wheel on my RX-8 ( see below). As for the chassis as has been said the rear suspension has been the largest criticism yet this is E30 set up and the E30 M3 regarded by many enthusiasts as the most enjoyable M3 to drive, (I say this being also aware of the E46 M3 CSL fanbase). Scuttle shake and body rigidity are common issues in convertibles (including the MK1 MX-5) - I reckon the rear hoops in mine firm things somwehat.ohrsome wrote:I have to say that as much as I love the Z3 it's not actually that good. Steering is almost completely without feel - and the wheel is too big, there's far too much flex in the chassis and it doesn't handle very well...............
I owned a 231 HP RX-8 from new in 2003 and for 2.5 years before replacing it with the X5.......RX-8 is a stunnning car - still miss mine .ohrsome wrote:.............I have/will be driving an RX-8 which I have on loan..................
Engine fine if rev's kept in range & can be faster than some Z3's but not all.......In real world road driving more depends on the driver & luck of draw as to not finding the next procession of sheep who think sensible progressive overtakes are evil. I havent driven a 3.0i or a Z3M but wouldnt expect to shame either in an RX-8. I dont find the Z3 to be a dire experience - biggest downfall being the odd jolt at the front from odd potholes mid bend albeit we know brace(s) can help. The Z3 ( Which I appreciate you also speak well of), gives me more peace of mind in ownership, (RX-8 not much fun when getting powerloss on an overtake, flooded engine in morning & low ,[real world], mpg relative to others in class).
As for comments by others - Havent driven an S2000 though must do so at some point- rev's for spirited progress not an issue for me. RWD and lack of computers are appealing.......I loved driving my MK1 MR2 (a car which in my opinion is superior to drive than the Mk1 MX-5). S2000 is a great looking car though with styling aspects of Z3 & RX-8 though IMO the Z3 has some of the nicest lines of most roadsters of since mid 90's. (Sorry Chris B).
Last edited by AW8 on Mon 20 Apr, 2009 10:51, edited 2 times in total.
Black Z3 2.2 & Black X5 4.4 Sport.
I have 5 BMW's (see sig) 4 of which are M's and one as good as.
I prefer driving the Z over all others.
Nuff said.
I prefer driving the Z over all others.
Nuff said.
Proud owner of #70 of 73 ever built RHD S54 M Roadster.
2000 Evergreen E36/8 M Coupe
2001 Imola Red E39 M5
2002 Phoenix Yellow E36/7 M Roadster
2003 Dakar Yellow E46 M3 Cabriolet
2005 Estoril Blue E53 X5 4.8is
2000 Evergreen E36/8 M Coupe
2001 Imola Red E39 M5
2002 Phoenix Yellow E36/7 M Roadster
2003 Dakar Yellow E46 M3 Cabriolet
2005 Estoril Blue E53 X5 4.8is
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danieltharris
- Joined: Fri 21 Nov, 2008 10:56
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The Z3 isn't amazing in terms of handling etc, but it's a car I love. I only have the 1.9l M44 engine...but i'm 22 so insurance cost is fair, and I have a BMW convertible. To me that is just cool.
I love mine for the style rather than performance. My Punto HGT 1.8 absolutely destroyed the Z3 in straight line performance, and the gearing was even better, perfect torque curve made it feel faster than it was. But it had typical Fiat build quality, which includes a gearbox that may aswell have been made out of chocolate!
Much prefer the Z3, but as I say I enjoy it for its style more than anything. I would love a Z4 at some point. Obviously with a large engine, they handle better and just generally are a better car technically, but the Z3 style is one that won't age.
I really think the Z4 style will age at some point, but there are no other roadsters that look like the Z3. A Mazda MX-5 handles better and the 4-cyl versions are faster than the 4-cyl Z3 but they look reaaalllyyy small.
Don't have that long bonnet and seats placed right over the back wheels. Two things that MAKE the looks of a classic styled roadster.
I love mine for the style rather than performance. My Punto HGT 1.8 absolutely destroyed the Z3 in straight line performance, and the gearing was even better, perfect torque curve made it feel faster than it was. But it had typical Fiat build quality, which includes a gearbox that may aswell have been made out of chocolate!
Much prefer the Z3, but as I say I enjoy it for its style more than anything. I would love a Z4 at some point. Obviously with a large engine, they handle better and just generally are a better car technically, but the Z3 style is one that won't age.
I really think the Z4 style will age at some point, but there are no other roadsters that look like the Z3. A Mazda MX-5 handles better and the 4-cyl versions are faster than the 4-cyl Z3 but they look reaaalllyyy small.
Don't have that long bonnet and seats placed right over the back wheels. Two things that MAKE the looks of a classic styled roadster.
having owned a 2.8 z3 i found it to be a very well built car BUT not one thing or another! not the thrills of any of my tvrs,and not the comfort of my merc. i enjoyed owning it but allways felt a bit let down by it. it simply never felt special and thats what there talking about. thats whats missing
global warming the biggest con in history
I know the Z4 is technically better than the Z3. Better handling etc but not so pleasing IMHO in the looks department.
I test drove a Z4M & really liked it.
I observed they have a neat sports steering wheel.
After that I decided the main niggle for me about my Z3 is the excessively large & skinny circa 1970's steering wheel
that I assume comes from, the 3 series. Sometime i'll get round to fitting a smaller steering wheel.
A cheaper option than buying a Z4M
I test drove a Z4M & really liked it.
I observed they have a neat sports steering wheel.
After that I decided the main niggle for me about my Z3 is the excessively large & skinny circa 1970's steering wheel
that I assume comes from, the 3 series. Sometime i'll get round to fitting a smaller steering wheel.
A cheaper option than buying a Z4M
'High G' motoring enthusiast
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danieltharris
- Joined: Fri 21 Nov, 2008 10:56
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
- Posts: 1210
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- Location: Bracknell
Complete opposite for me. The Z3 ownership was special from the day I picked it up, to the day I dropped I sold it. Not one day passed without a smile being put on my face from driving it.EDD57 wrote:having owned a 2.8 z3 i found it to be a very well built car BUT not one thing or another! not the thrills of any of my tvrs,and not the comfort of my merc. i enjoyed owning it but allways felt a bit let down by it. it simply never felt special and thats what there talking about. thats whats missing
Drove through picadilly in london last sarurday morning and I got a LOT of tourists staring and taking photos of my gleaming black z3 3.0. Who says its a blot.. Someone at BMW who thinks having trailing arm suspension means the car is a dud.. When in actuality a MINI with suspension from the dark ages could out handle a modern Porsche.. I think they are just technology snobs and are looking to make you want to buy the newer (and more expensive) model.
The fact that the Z4 3.0 has the same engine at the Z3 3.0 says a lot.
The fact that the Z4 3.0 has the same engine at the Z3 3.0 says a lot.
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My daughter was stood next to a lady waiting for me to pick her up and as I approached the lady, who didn't know she was stood next to my daughter, saidskeete wrote:Drove through picadilly in london last sarurday morning and I got a LOT of tourists staring and taking photos of my gleaming black z3 3.0.
"oooo that's the car I want if I ever win the lottery"
The Z3 has an aura and there are those that appreciate it and there are those that don't.... simples...
Thats what I thought too.Robin wrote: I observed they have a neat sports steering wheel.
After that I decided the main niggle for me about my Z3 is the excessively large & skinny circa 1970's steering wheel
that I assume comes from, the 3 series. Sometime i'll get round to fitting a smaller steering wheel.
Thats why I now have a Z4M steering wheel in my Z3M
Proud owner of #70 of 73 ever built RHD S54 M Roadster.
2000 Evergreen E36/8 M Coupe
2001 Imola Red E39 M5
2002 Phoenix Yellow E36/7 M Roadster
2003 Dakar Yellow E46 M3 Cabriolet
2005 Estoril Blue E53 X5 4.8is
2000 Evergreen E36/8 M Coupe
2001 Imola Red E39 M5
2002 Phoenix Yellow E36/7 M Roadster
2003 Dakar Yellow E46 M3 Cabriolet
2005 Estoril Blue E53 X5 4.8is
Have twice this week seen BMW's new cinema ad....ie they don't create cars but do create joy....you'll know it when you see it....seems to show every model they've ever done...but the Z3 does seem to have not made the cut...personally I think it'll stand the test of time looks-wise far better than the Z4 which is more 'of the moment'....
Incidentally went and looked at a Z4 at a $tealers...the sales-man asked me what I was driving...and went onto wax lyrical about how the Z3 was fantastic and how he'd had the most memorable drive of his life in one.....came away not even bothering to test-drive the Z4 and completely persuaded to keep the 3
Incidentally went and looked at a Z4 at a $tealers...the sales-man asked me what I was driving...and went onto wax lyrical about how the Z3 was fantastic and how he'd had the most memorable drive of his life in one.....came away not even bothering to test-drive the Z4 and completely persuaded to keep the 3
I have only had my z for a couple of months but have loved every minute of it i have worked in the motor trade for 30 years with vauxhall,seat and now mitsubishi so get to drive a lot of cars and hear a lot of views ! my mates were all suprised at my new car after the e36 328 sport and 10 years of modified e30 s i got all the usual " hair dressers " comment s etc ,but they have all loved it too ! there are plenty of far more capable cars in terms of performance or handling but few have that special something ,call it character or feel etc that my z and my e30 s had .The z3 is typical early bmw the same as the mx5 ( another great car ) is typical japanese " you pays your money and takes your choice "
i have worked in the motor trade for 30 years with vauxhall,seat and now mitsubishi so get to drive a lot of cars and hear a lot of views ! my mates were all suprised at my new car after the e36 328 sport and 10 years of modified e30 s i got all the usual " hair dressers " comment s etc ,but they have all loved it too ! there are plenty of far more capable cars in terms of performance or handling but few have that special something ,call it character or feel etc that my z and my e30 s had .The z3 is typical early bmw the same as the mx5 ( another great car ) is typical japanese " you pays your money and takes your choice " -
BarneyBoko
- Joined: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 15:37
- Posts: 158
- Location: Inchture
When I decided I wanted a dog I got a Jack Russell, it was the most unbiddable crazy B*****d you could imagine, but boy was it a character and did we not have the most amazing fun.
I extended this line of thinking when I decided I wanted a sports car, why not I drive a Merc through the week so I needed an antidote. I tried Boxters and all the rest, not impressed, then a mate suggested I try this "BMW thing" that he had seen. Took it for run, nearly lost it a couple of times, new that it was different. Couldnt get my money out quick enough. Its also a crazy B*****d, I have not fitted any kind of brace to it because I love it when it tries to go in four directions at one time and when it twists all over the place. I love the style, its got tons of character, nothing looks like it. Like someone else said there is no middle ground you either love them or hate them.
I love mine.
Barney
I extended this line of thinking when I decided I wanted a sports car, why not I drive a Merc through the week so I needed an antidote. I tried Boxters and all the rest, not impressed, then a mate suggested I try this "BMW thing" that he had seen. Took it for run, nearly lost it a couple of times, new that it was different. Couldnt get my money out quick enough. Its also a crazy B*****d, I have not fitted any kind of brace to it because I love it when it tries to go in four directions at one time and when it twists all over the place. I love the style, its got tons of character, nothing looks like it. Like someone else said there is no middle ground you either love them or hate them.
I love mine.
Barney
When RED was under warranty at Scothall Watford 
they would usually collect and return the car for any work that was needed.
Apparently the courtesy drivers would argue about who would drive her from and to my house, and one said to me that he enjoyed driving RED more than any other car at Scothalls.
He told me she was a very special car with more character and far more fun to drive than anything else he drove in his working day. His only complaint was the 'agricultural' feel to the gearbox....
Ok, I know he wouldn't exactly have been taking the corners sideways, but his comments were great to hear!
A.
they would usually collect and return the car for any work that was needed.Apparently the courtesy drivers would argue about who would drive her from and to my house, and one said to me that he enjoyed driving RED more than any other car at Scothalls.
He told me she was a very special car with more character and far more fun to drive than anything else he drove in his working day. His only complaint was the 'agricultural' feel to the gearbox....
Ok, I know he wouldn't exactly have been taking the corners sideways, but his comments were great to hear!
A.
...gotta luv these replies, does my soul good!!
Was at a garden wedding party last week end. Talking in a group when the bride came up to me. "Does that sports car with the open top belong to you?" she asked. Several voices answered "Yes". The bride, complete with wedding dress etc. etc. grabbed my arm and dragged me out of the room crying "My body is yours, Take me away...". She does look good though, just polished and waxed her for the occasion.
Two thoughts occurred to me, does she also ride like balancing a ball bearing on a blunt knife, and, how well does my wife know her?
Hate a Z3..? Nahhh!
Was at a garden wedding party last week end. Talking in a group when the bride came up to me. "Does that sports car with the open top belong to you?" she asked. Several voices answered "Yes". The bride, complete with wedding dress etc. etc. grabbed my arm and dragged me out of the room crying "My body is yours, Take me away...". She does look good though, just polished and waxed her for the occasion.
Two thoughts occurred to me, does she also ride like balancing a ball bearing on a blunt knife, and, how well does my wife know her?
Hate a Z3..? Nahhh!
