Any Plumbers in the House?

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 16:22

Hi all,

Does anyone know much about household plumbing

We had some new taps fitted 5 weeks ago, mixer in the kitchen and usual basin taps in the bathroom, the plumber fitted a pair of in-line shut off valves for the hot and cold pipes in the bathroom. Ever since they have been done we now get a continous whooshing sound through the mains pipes, I think the cold water pipes. If the mains stopcock in the house is closed the sound goes.

I have tried a number of things to get rid of the noise i.e. closing the stopcock, running all the taps, flushing toilets and then turning mains back on. The taps will glug glug, spit water out, i.e. expelling air and then will run smoothly. The whooshing sound in the pipework disappears but returns again after 24hrs

Reading on the internet and the symptoms I have, implies that there is a pressure leak someone, i.e. a water leak somewhere in the house, however have checked everywhere, loft, most of the pipework but no leaks, there is no mains pipework under floors (bungalow) so at a loss.

Anyone had this problem before?

Cheers,

Tim.

Frank.A · Post by **Frank.A** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 16:39

New one on me Tim, but I'm not a plumber.

I have fitted said isolating valves when I refurbed the kitchen,bathroom and cloaks but have never noticed any noises.

I would call the plumber back.

macca · Post by **macca** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 17:25

Are the shut off valves fully open, if not it acts as a restrictor and can cause a noise when the water is released?

ZZZEMMCO · Post by **ZZZEMMCO** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 17:26

Have you checked the water level in the cold water storage tank in your loft? If low, when you use the hot and cold fittings(not main at sink unit) it could be sucking in air.

NickDale · Post by **NickDale** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 17:57

i am a plumber, noise can be a hard one sometimes because of the way it travels through the pipes but nearly always its a ball valve. either on a toilet or from a tank in the loft, this could of started then either because when your plumber worked on the pipes he may of got a little dirt in the pipes and that would find its way to a ball valve or just the decrease in pressure when the wanted was turned off can sometimes do this. what type of system do you have? combi boiler? unvented mains? open vented?

DC · Post by DC » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 18:02

You've probably done this already but if not it's worth checking all the bathroom overflows, sometimes the float valves stick intermittently and allow water to continue after flushing.
Also it can be a burst outside the house sending the noise through the pipes though probably not in your case.
Dave.

Hard Top · Post by **Hard Top** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 18:15

Something like this might help?

HT

How to Keep Water Pipes From Howling | eHow.com
http://www.ehow.com/how_6912661_keep-wa ... wling.html

gookah wrote:
NickDale wrote: no wonder i stopped posting here!

"Oh no you didn't".......

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 19:56

NickDale wrote:i am a plumber, noise can be a hard one sometimes because of the way it travels through the pipes but nearly always its a ball valve. either on a toilet or from a tank in the loft, this could of started then either because when your plumber worked on the pipes he may of got a little dirt in the pipes and that would find its way to a ball valve or just the decrease in pressure when the wanted was turned off can sometimes do this. what type of system do you have? combi boiler? unvented mains? open vented?

Thanks for the replies everyone, really appreciate it

Nick, thanks for your reply, the ball valve for the toilet cisterns are OK. We have a seperate gas boiler and hot water tank and I think

the loft cold water tank is vented as I remember when we had the bathroom taps done before we got alot of air in the system which prevented waterflow to the taps and the plumber had to vent the cold water tank which sorted it.

I have just shut the water off again, opened the cold water taps until dry, closed them and quickly turned the mains back on again. The sssshhhhhh sound in the pipes has gone again now and the system is totally silent. I'am wandering if it is air getting in via the cold water tank, hence why the sound returns after 24hrs

I thought though you could only get air in the hot water pipes and not cold

I guess next thing is to check the cold water tank. The ball cock in the cold water tank was replaced a few years ago as water was trickling out the overflow so isn't very old.

The noise that can be heard isn't loud and gets drowned out by the central heating etc, but when everything is off the sssssshhhhh noise can be heard

Cheers,

Tim.

OXO · Post by **OXO** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 20:48

you need to go round the system shutting off anything that can be. My guess is the same as above, that it's a toilet cistern. But also check outside taps - one in the garage or garden?

you don't need much of a drip to make a sound...

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 20:59

OXO wrote:you need to go round the system shutting off anything that can be. My guess is the same as above, that it's a toilet cistern. But also check outside taps - one in the garage or garden?

you don't need much of a drip to make a sound...

Cheers for that, have checked cisterns and seem OK, we don't have any external taps so can't be a problem. Just puzzled as to why if the mains is turned off and taps drained and then back on the sound dissapears

Tim.

OXO · Post by **OXO** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 21:05

do your loos have the overflow which goes into the pan, or out of a separate pipe to outside?

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 21:14

OXO wrote:do your loos have the overflow which goes into the pan, or out of a separate pipe to outside?

Hi OXO, the overflows go from the bottom of the cistern through the external wall to the outside,

Tim.

OXO · Post by **OXO** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 22:15

In our place here, if the kitchen tap is dripping once per second, I can go upstairs and hear the hiss in the pipe. You don't need much leak for the sound...

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sat 12 Mar, 2011 22:18

OXO wrote:In our place here, if the kitchen tap is dripping once per second, I can go upstairs and hear the hiss in the pipe. You don't need much leak for the sound...

We've got no dripping taps, they're all new

The pipes are quiet at moment,

we'll see if the noise returns tomorrow.

Tim.

NickDale · Post by **NickDale** » Sun 13 Mar, 2011 09:28

mains pressure cold water shouldnt ever get air in the pipe work and make a noise so it wont be on the cold if its not on a float valve. the main reasons for noise in the pipe work would be;
1) unclipped pipe work, its not going to be that as your pipe work hasn't changed.
2) air in the system, very little chance of this as all hot taps are running i presume? and mains pressure cold wouldn't trap air.
3) a float valve, could be a toilet or tanks in the loft if you could isolate any of these you mite get your answer. i think I'd start with your cold water storage tank in the loft (the big one if you have two) if you cant isolate the tanks try sticking your head up in the loft when you hear the noise, see if its any louder. these dont have to be overflowing to be a problem if they trap dirt they can make noise even if you open a tap elswhere in the house.

Nick

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sun 13 Mar, 2011 11:17

NickDale wrote:mains pressure cold water shouldnt ever get air in the pipe work and make a noise so it wont be on the cold if its not on a float valve. the main reasons for noise in the pipe work would be;
1) unclipped pipe work, its not going to be that as your pipe work hasn't changed.
2) air in the system, very little chance of this as all hot taps are running i presume? and mains pressure cold wouldn't trap air.
3) a float valve, could be a toilet or tanks in the loft if you could isolate any of these you mite get your answer. i think I'd start with your cold water storage tank in the loft (the big one if you have two) if you cant isolate the tanks try sticking your head up in the loft when you hear the noise, see if its any louder. these dont have to be overflowing to be a problem if they trap dirt they can make noise even if you open a tap elswhere in the house.

Nick

Hi Nick,

Thanks very much for your reply, much appreciated. Noise hasn't returned since yesterday

so as you suggest will poke my head in the loft if it returns, we have just the one cold water tank in the loft. I'm just puzzled as to why the noise disappears if you turn the mains off and back on and then reappears some 24hrs later

If it was a faulty float valve then wouldn't the sound reappear straight away once the mains was turned back on again?

Cheers,

Tim.

OXO · Post by **OXO** » Sun 13 Mar, 2011 11:27

TitanTim wrote:
NickDale wrote:mains pressure cold water shouldnt ever get air in the pipe work and make a noise so it wont be on the cold if its not on a float valve. the main reasons for noise in the pipe work would be;
1) unclipped pipe work, its not going to be that as your pipe work hasn't changed.
2) air in the system, very little chance of this as all hot taps are running i presume? and mains pressure cold wouldn't trap air.
3) a float valve, could be a toilet or tanks in the loft if you could isolate any of these you mite get your answer. i think I'd start with your cold water storage tank in the loft (the big one if you have two) if you cant isolate the tanks try sticking your head up in the loft when you hear the noise, see if its any louder. these dont have to be overflowing to be a problem if they trap dirt they can make noise even if you open a tap elswhere in the house.

Nick
Hi Nick,

Thanks very much for your reply, much appreciated. Noise hasn't returned since yesterday so as you suggest will poke my head in the loft if it returns, we have just the one cold water tank in the loft. I'm just puzzled as to why the noise disappears if you turn the mains off and back on and then reappears some 24hrs later If it was a faulty float valve then wouldn't the sound reappear straight away once the mains was turned back on again?

Cheers,

Tim.

Possibly not. If there is some damage or grit in the valve, it could be that the pressure is preventing it from seating properly after it has been opened. Once you reduce the pressure by turning it off, the valve reseals. Only later when the valve opens and closes again does it have the problem again... ?

Boysie · Post by **Boysie** » Sun 13 Mar, 2011 22:55

Hi TitanTim

I have come across this several times in clients lofts,
where people have done a DIY job and fitted a service valve
this has a restricted flow.

"You must remove it and fit a mains stop cock"

Ray

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sun 13 Mar, 2011 23:05

Boysie wrote:Hi TitanTim

I have come across this several times in clients lofts,
where people have done a DIY job and fitted a service valve
this has a restricted flow.

"You must remove it and fit a mains stop cock"

Ray

Hi Ray,

Thanks, the cold water tank in the loft has a standard ballcock float, which was replaced a few years back with a new one by a plumber, has worked fine and no problems, until we started getting this ssshhhhh noise through water pipes which I think started when we had kitchen and bathroom taps replaced a few weeks back.

Funnily enough I switched the mains water off at 6pm Sat night and back on and noise has gone and hasn't reappeared, toilets, taps, shower have all been used today. I'm hoping the noise has gone for good now

Tim.

Boysie · Post by **Boysie** » Mon 14 Mar, 2011 07:49

Hi

Just to make it even more complicated
There are now two types of taps on the market
High presure and the standard low

That would make a difference
if a combi boiler or a presurised/pumped system was installled

ray

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Mon 14 Mar, 2011 12:20

Had a nose in the loft, and can hear a continuous trickle of water going into the cold water tank,

which would explain the continous ssssshhhhhhh noise in the water pipe going up into the loft. I guess the ballcock valve isn't shutting the water off once upto level?

Tim.

OXO · Post by **OXO** » Mon 14 Mar, 2011 13:09

TitanTim wrote:Had a nose in the loft, and can hear a continuous trickle of water going into the cold water tank, which would explain the continous ssssshhhhhhh noise in the water pipe going up into the loft. I guess the ballcock valve isn't shutting the water off once upto level?

Tim.

Yep, that's it.

It's an easy thing to change yourself. Off to the plumbers merchants with you !

Boysie · Post by **Boysie** » Mon 14 Mar, 2011 16:21

Hi

I would be very surprised if thats the answer,
the ballcock leaking would not cause a noise in the pipes
you descrbe a rushing noise?
I have had that noise in pipes when there's a leak in the mains supply
inside or outside the building the sound travels

shame your not close by

There is an old fashion way to detect leaks, the water board still
use the method to this day.
Put a piece metal resting on the pipe and other end to your ear
You will hear the noise of the water rushing if leaking

Ray

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Mon 14 Mar, 2011 16:33

Boysie wrote:Hi

I would be very surprised if thats the answer,
the ballcock leaking would not cause a noise in the pipes
you descrbe a rushing noise?
I have had that noise in pipes when there's a leak in the mains supply
inside or outside the building the sound travels

shame your not close by

Ray

Hi Ray,

I can't think what else it could be, if you switch the mains off inside the house the noise goes. I understand if the noise was still there once the inside mains was shut off it could be leak outside so can't be that. There is definitely no leaks inside the house.

The sound is like when the cold water tank is filling i.e. rushing of water through the pipes but its doing it all the time instead stopping once the tank is full. Its the only explanation I can think of as if the tank is filling all the time and the water not shutting off then I would have thought you would get the pipe noise continously which is what its doing. When I checked this morning I could hear water going into the tank continously and not being shut off.

Plumber is coming tomorrow morning to check the ballcock etc. The cold water tank in our loft is a swine to get too as being in a bungalow with shallow pitched roof you need to be the size of a hamster.

Thanks for the responses,

Tim.

Boysie · Post by **Boysie** » Mon 14 Mar, 2011 16:46

I'm glad you didnt say the size of a mouse

Ray

Gio · Post by **Gio** » Tue 15 Mar, 2011 11:34

I had the same problem with the ballcock not closing fully, and it was continuously allowing a slow dribble of water into the tank.
The excess water overflowed out of the overflow pipe, and would turn into a torrent when the central heating kicked in (why the central heating increase the flow I don't know).
I never had any noise from the pipes during this, so this possibly isn't the cause of your noise.

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Tue 15 Mar, 2011 11:46

Thanks for all replies

Plumber has been and fitted a replacement high pressure ballvalve and replaced the connection seal from inlet pipe so all quiet now, hope it stays that way, I think it was the original from 1971

Tim.

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Any Plumbers in the House?

Any Plumbers in the House?

Check storage tank--If fitted?.