zroadster.net future, copyright and other issues

What's happening in the wider BMW scene? Gossip and news about forthcoming models. Plus off-topic chat.

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tim.cullis
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zroadster.net future, copyright and other issues

Post by tim.cullis » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 11:29

There's been a lot of discussion on this board in the last couple of weeks over the problems with the site and whilst I have already apologised for the breakdown in service, I do so again here. Although I have not made a public post about the future, in the mods subforum area I have outlined five different ways of moving forward with various site upgrades. Please be patient for a few days whilst this is discussed.

In the meantime I am not prepared to be publicly castigated especially after so much work over the last twelve years so I have moved some threads to the 'sin bin'. When members signed up to the site you all clicked on the 'I agree' button on the registration page at http://www.zroadster.net/forum/profile. ... e=register which laid out terms of use. It's worth reading that page again and taking the rules to heart. Amongst other items members are asked not to make disparaging remarks to others per my observation above.
_________________________________________________________

Some other points on copyright. I've seen some proposals raised on the board to copy the contents of zroadster.net and make it available elsewhere. I would point those members to the registration agreement text, "Content is copyright © zroadster.net. All rights reserved. You may make an electronic link to pages and graphics on this site, but no components may otherwise be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form without permission."

Copyright is the automatic right of the creator from the point that the first 'recording' of the work was made in a tangible manner. In this case, from the point it was typed on the keyboard. So this mean the member as the 'creator' of the post, is a copyright owner of his/her posts and has the right to reproduce these elsewhere.

However... in posting on the forum, members have accepted the terms that this type of publication implies. In posting, member are accepting that their content will be published by the site owner, and also that the site owner has the right to edit or delete their posts as seen fit and to maintain copyright over the contributions. Clearly a third party who is neither the original contributor, nor the site owner, who copies this information elsewhere with the intention of publishing it on a separate website is breaking copyright.

_________________________________________________________

The other issue is the repeated mention by some members of alternative forums. Those with long memories will recall the situation with a competitor forum where under the guise of 'free speech' people were allowed to trawl through the members on zroadster.net and encourage them over to the new forum. When that new forum went belly up all the contributions over the many months disappeared into the ether.

So I'm not prepared to freely allow trawling for other websites whether by direct mentions in posts or in signatures.

Tim
Last edited by tim.cullis on Wed 14 Dec, 2011 11:56, edited 4 times in total.

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stu
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Post by stu » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 11:52

Tim, thanks for making that all clear. To me it is.

I think frustration is sometimes difficult to manage, so whilst I am not making excuses, I do feel some empathy is also appropriate.

What we just need to be mindful of is that we don't want originators of posts to delete the material they have contributed either. By deleting a post, they then may feel there is no breach of copyright.

I will have a look in the Mods area.

Thanks again & Best Regards.

Stu
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Badman gee
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Post by Badman gee » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 12:38

Thanks for the reply Tim.

The site has been of great use to many people.

I for one have only been here for a little over a year.

In that time I have met some interesting people, and have made some new friends whose company I enjoy very much.

Long may it continue.

Thanks again

Mark
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Post by Warrior » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 14:59

Apart from a site upgrade, have you or would you consider selling the site as it is Tim?

I'm a sideline observer of this situation but as a forum owner/administrator myself (Not motoring) know how hard it is to refresh the feel of and engage the membership as a whole. Whilst continuance of the same format does secure a degree of market ownership, think Marks & Spencers, when something new comes along it can, as in this case, be devisive and potentially destructive.

I sourced, learnt about and purchased my Zed from a.net member and have found it to be a great resource. That said I see greater potential for engagement on 'the other side' as it does not have the stigma and drawbacks of a gentlemens club which besets .net That's obviously a very personal view but if a compromise or as I ask, a sale of this site was an option then maybe Zed owners (who after all are the primary contributors)would have the best of both worlds?

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Geoff H
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Post by Geoff H » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 15:43

There have been a lot of moans recently with out any thought of all the years you have run the site, mostly at your own cost. I for one would like to thank you for your effort over the years.
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Re: zroadster.net future, copyright and other issues

Post by g8jka » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 16:11

tim.cullis wrote:I have not made a public post about the future, in the mods subforum area I have outlined five different ways of moving forward with various site upgrades. Please be patient for a few days whilst this is discussed.
Will these ways of moving the forum forward be put to the members for discussion or be left solely down to the mods to make a decision?
Geoff H wrote:There have been a lot of moans recently with out any thought of all the years you have run the site, mostly at your own cost. I for one would like to thank you for your effort over the years.
I'm sure that everyone would thank Tim for the hard work over previous years as he has done a great job, but most of the moans were about Tim asking for site funding which would contribute towards future upgrades and then nothing being done about these upgrades and no explanation of what the funding has been spent on. I think that's the main reason why members feel cheated and were moaning?

But at least we may now be moving forward and some decisions should be made very soon, lets hope they are promising :D
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stu
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Re: zroadster.net future, copyright and other issues

Post by stu » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 18:25

g8jka wrote:Will these ways of moving the forum forward be put to the members for discussion or be left solely down to the mods to make a decision?

....

At least we may now be moving forward and some decisions should be made very soon, lets hope they are promising :D
Why do you ask?

The Admin team are the, erm, Admin team.

Progress is being made. We are working on security and resilience issues and looking at other things that we feel need to be done to ensure our community has a good future to look forward to. We do not plan to share the details at this time, but clearly when we are happy we have resolved the issues we are working on, it will be made public.

Clearly it's not a democracy and doubt could even be possible to be put to a referendum, even if we do end up with a coalition in the end.
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TitanTim
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Post by TitanTim » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 18:37

Geoff H wrote:There have been a lot of moans recently with out any thought of all the years you have run the site, mostly at your own cost. I for one would like to thank you for your effort over the years.
Members weren't moaning but quite rightly asking as to what use the sponsorship monies were being put too.

Tim.
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 18:46

Thanks for the update and I wait in anticipation of further clarification in the near future.

Personally I think further speculation and questions are best reserved until things are clarified further.

For what it's worth I also feel your interpretation re copyright is fair and reasonable in that the originator of each post retains copyright but the forum has the right to alter such posts and use as it as deemed appropriate. Accordingly no thread made up of multiple posts by various contributors can be replicated without the express permission of every contributor. This would effectively make the replication of this forums historical threads a breach of copyright. The only issue I could see in enforcing this is whether or not the forum as a legal entity can or if it would have to be the original contributor ? Not a question I think can be easily answered however the basic principle that a breach of copyright has occurred seems sound.
It also follows however that the original contributor can request his post to be removed at any time.

That is why when replicating my journal on other forums I am very careful not to replicate other contributors posts on the thread ie I am not in breach of copyright ;-)

At the end of the day it is Tims forum and that has to be respected. As always people can express there opinion but it should be done with respect IMHO. The old adage if you don't like it don't use it always applies ;-)

I'm sure Tim as much as anyone does not want this forum to die a slow and pitiful death over the next 10 years and the strength of feeling based on genuine concern for the sites future will count for a lot.
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g8jka
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Re: zroadster.net future, copyright and other issues

Post by g8jka » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 18:49

stu wrote:
g8jka wrote:Will these ways of moving the forum forward be put to the members for discussion or be left solely down to the mods to make a decision?
Why do you ask?
Because its the members who are asking for the changes, not the admin team so surely the members are the ones that need to be pleased otherwise they will leave if the changes are not likeable.

This forum works because everyone groups together with sharing ideas and giving solutions to problems. I feel that if an agreement is made before sharing ideas with the members it may drive them elsewhere if they are not right. At least sharing ideas with the whole forum prior to any changes, a decision of which direction to go can then be made, which is more likely to please the majority :D
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Gazza
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Post by Gazza » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 19:09

As mentioned in another thread, we are all just guests here, some have paid in the past and some have not, that doesn't give any of us rights.

As members we have the choice to visit or not.

The layout of the Forum doesn't bother me so long as the content isn't affected.
Gazza

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Post by John1950 » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 19:16

Badman gee wrote:Thanks for the reply Tim.

The site has been of great use to many people.

I for one have only been here for a little over a year.

In that time I have met some interesting people, and have made some new friends whose company I enjoy very much.

Long may it continue.

Thanks again

Mark
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Yes - and I agree too.
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Badman gee
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Post by Badman gee » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 19:17

garythefish wrote:As mentioned in another thread, we are all just guests here, some have paid in the past and some have not, that doesn't give any of us rights.

As members we have the choice to visit or not.

The layout of the Forum doesn't bother me so long as the content isn't affected.
I agree :)
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Badman gee
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Post by Badman gee » Wed 14 Dec, 2011 19:23

The site is back, let's enjoy it and stop taking things too seriously.

:D
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Dave L2
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Post by Dave L2 » Thu 15 Dec, 2011 17:43

garythefish wrote:As mentioned in another thread, we are all just guests here, some have paid in the past and some have not, that doesn't give any of us rights.

As members we have the choice to visit or not.

The layout of the Forum doesn't bother me so long as the content isn't affected.
Hit the nail right on the head there Gary, this is exactly what I've been thinking over the last week or so.

Tim obviously has a LOT more patience than I do, with all the bitching about "we have the right to..." and "we deserve..." I'd have pulled the plug days ago. Let's just all be grateful that it's not my site :)

You do what you need to Tim and I'm sure the long term core members will just be glad to have .net survive. This is far too precious a resource to loose over "I want better smilies."
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt » Thu 15 Dec, 2011 20:52

Can we have better smilies :?: :twisted:
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stu
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Post by stu » Fri 16 Dec, 2011 09:53

Jonttt wrote:Can we have better smilies :?: :twisted:

Carol Smilie perhaps?
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Post by Fender2004 » Sun 18 Dec, 2011 15:17

Geoff H wrote:There have been a lot of moans recently with out any thought of all the years you have run the site, mostly at your own cost. I for one would like to thank you for your effort over the years.
Hear hear

Great site, which has helped me repair my Z3 myself, instead of going to a garage.
Long may it continue

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Post by Robin » Sun 18 Dec, 2011 15:33

I really like the layout/format of this site. It's clear & logical to navigate.
The latest posts rolling up the LHS of the screen is a brilliant feature that I've not seen on other forums.
Thanks Tim for setting the sight up & keeping it going.
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Post by Warrior » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 02:06

Pangster thrown off of Bimmerforums :D

Sorry for the thread hijack but I know he'll be watching. :D

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Post by stu » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 08:48

Warrior wrote:Pangster thrown off of Bimmerforums :D

Sorry for the thread hijack but I know he'll be watching. :D
Shame.
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 18:07

What makes you think he's been banned ? Looks like the thread was just locked by the mods as it was getting know where which is fair enough.

I'm not sure who signed up on there to make the last posts but it certainly was not me. Although myself and pangster have had our well documented differences we keep out of each others way (at least on an open forum)
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Post by Warrior » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 18:45

Jonttt wrote:What makes you think he's been banned ? Looks like the thread was just locked by the mods as it was getting know where which is fair enough.

I'm not sure who signed up on there to make the last posts but it certainly was not me. Although myself and pangster have had our well documented differences we keep out of each others way (at least on an open forum)
I thought the name was obvious.....Warrior....WarBaby :wink:

I made one post on Bimmer to point out that he had made a mocking yet erroneous statement about moi and made the comment above to prove to him and others that he's a regular visitor on here despite what he says. :lol:

Acknowledged by an extremely refreshing and pleasant PM :bawl: :D

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Post by Jonttt » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 21:45

He loves his pm's lol

It's pretty obvious he is a regular lurker on here ;-)

So far as I know he has sold his Bmw's and moved onto mercs but he'll soon realise the error of his ways and be back in BMW land I bet lol

Anyway this thread should get back on topic waiting patiently for an update on what is or is not planned for the site :rtm:
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Post by Jonttt » Fri 23 Dec, 2011 15:59

Any update from the admin team / Tim on the future plans for the site. I appreciate things have been going on behind the scenes but any progress or can we expect an update in the new year ?
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Post by gookah » Fri 23 Dec, 2011 16:43

:roflmao:
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I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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Post by Phil » Fri 23 Dec, 2011 17:19

Purely out of curiousity what would you expect to see if the site were updated.
In other words, if it were revealed that it had been updated with regard to security etc would you or I be any the wiser?
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Post by TitanTim » Fri 23 Dec, 2011 17:54

Phil wrote:Purely out of curiousity what would you expect to see if the site were updated.
In other words, if it were revealed that it had been updated with regard to security etc would you or I be any the wiser?
I'm guessing it would have a fresher look and more smilies like .org :lol:

Tim.
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Post by Jonttt » Fri 23 Dec, 2011 20:14

Phil wrote:Purely out of curiousity what would you expect to see if the site were updated.
In other words, if it were revealed that it had been updated with regard to security etc would you or I be any the wiser?
That's pretty simple to answer in that I think that it is not down to me to dictate how a free site is ran ie if the update is nothing will change then that's fine and everyone knows where they stand and there is no guarantee the site will be here from one day to the next. If the update is that more robust contingency plans are in place but the actual format stays the same then that would give people more confidence that their contributions will not suddenly be lost. The proof would be in the pudding with that one with quicker reactions and communication when things go wrong. In terms of a newer interface / more up to date features as people have now experienced first hand on.ORG would simply show further commitment that this forum will be here for another 10 years at least.

In summary what is planned for this forum I have no control over and I think the majority of comments over the past few weeks have all had the same theme but some put more politely and respectfully than others therefore I think you already know the answer to the question what would we like ?

My query is when will we know what we will get ? Even if that's status quo that's fine so long as we know ;-)
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Post by Giles » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 01:35

TitanTim wrote: I'm guessing it would have a fresher look and more smilies like .org :lol:

Tim.
Without wishing to be at all provocative, that comment effectively encapsulates exactly the difference between .net and .org. A few smilies and a nice cliquey area where not much is actually said regarding the reason people came together in the first place - ie the Z car. And if the .org crowd find a chat amongst like minded friends more important than integrating within a site where he real meat is, then fine!

Let the masses decide for themselves :)

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Post by Mouldy » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 02:54

Giles wrote:
TitanTim wrote: I'm guessing it would have a fresher look and more smilies like .org :lol:

Tim.
Without wishing to be at all provocative, that comment effectively encapsulates exactly the difference between .net and .org. A few smilies and a nice cliquey area where not much is actually said regarding the reason people came together in the first place - ie the Z car. And if the .org crowd find a chat amongst like minded friends more important than integrating within a site where he real meat is, then fine!

Let the masses decide for themselves :)
I don't want to rake over old ground, but I think that there are other reasons why people have migrated to .org from .net other than smilies.

As we know, there was a lot posted on here a couple of weeks ago following the resurrection of the site regarding funding and where the monies that many of us had donated on the premise of site upgrades had been spent. The question, to a lot of us, was not answered and the offending thread deleted. The renewed request for funding for the site was also withdrawn.
tim.cullis wrote:There's been a lot of discussion on this board in the last couple of weeks over the problems with the site and whilst I have already apologised for the breakdown in service, I do so again here. Although I have not made a public post about the future, in the mods subforum area I have outlined five different ways of moving forward with various site upgrades. Please be patient for a few days whilst this is discussed.

Tim
There still hasn't been any update on the upgrades proposed by Tim in his post and the question posed by Jonttt still hasn't been answered.

It may be possible for both sites to exist and thrive, but I don't feel that denigrating .org for lacking 'real meat' is fair or just. It was simply created, about three weeks ago, for those of us who have an interest in the Zed car to have somewhere to discuss their cars during the period that .net was inaccessible. It has proved popular and is run by people who have a real and genuine interest in their Zeds.

There is a lot of scope for .org to become what .net already is and as you rightly point out, this is a Forum to discuss the Zed car. My point is that if the Forum is unreliable and runs on clunky software that hasn't been upgraded for several years, the members who have made this site what it is, can and will move elsewhere. There is now a real alternative for current owners and members to participate in discussing their love of their Zed cars elsewhere.

.net may have over 10,000 members, but where are the majority of them now? I suspect that most of the active members have at least looked at .org, if they haven't already joined.

I have already said in previous posts that I found a lot of really useful information on here (despite the quirky Search facility) during my period of Zed ownership and happily donated funds, when requested, for site improvements (that I have yet to see).

Despite the recent sale of my Zed, I still like to read the banter in my break during my dreary 12 hour night shift. The migration of a lot of regular posters to .org has meant that this is no longer such an interesting read, with far fewer posts daily than there used to be. Its sad that the future of a facility with so much to offer Zed owners and potential owners alike, is being jeopardised for the sake of an answer to a question.
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Post by Hard Top » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 05:38

OK Giles, your have helped me make a decision here, not that it is of any importance in the cyber world we live in.

Without wishing to be at all provocative, your comments effectively encapsulate the difference between .org and .net

The .org boys have shown how a site can be set up and running within a matter of days (this came to be because .net was down, again) and without asking for donations!

.net is a dinosaur and without any improvement will go the same way as the wee beasties.

As for all the people that are worried about the 'knowledge base' its out there, its called 'the world wide web'

Mike.
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Post by TitanTim » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 11:45

Giles wrote:
TitanTim wrote: I'm guessing it would have a fresher look and more smilies like .org :lol:

Tim.
Without wishing to be at all provocative, that comment effectively encapsulates exactly the difference between .net and .org. A few smilies and a nice cliquey area where not much is actually said regarding the reason people came together in the first place - ie the Z car. And if the .org crowd find a chat amongst like minded friends more important than integrating within a site where he real meat is, then fine!

Let the masses decide for themselves :)
Giles my comment was a tongue in cheek gesture, but you have missed the point, the reason .org was set up in my mind was because members wanted the Zed community to be kept alive and to carry on their love and passion for Zeds. At the time no-one knew of the .net site would reappear. An old site with its past knowledge base with an awful search facility doesn't necessarily make it a good site that new owners will want to use.

I think Mouldy's post above sums in up very well really. I just wished Tim Cullis was more forthcoming with his plans if any for this site and too move it forward, but I don't think its going too happen, he's not interested in Zeds anymore but still still wants full reigns on this site which is a pity, hence the thread on copyrighting etc. It would have been much better to have let go and passed the site over to a member/s to take it forward in the style and spirit of .org site whilst still keeping all the knowledge base intact. Yes its still here but as said posts on here are getting less and less which means the masses have already making their minds up.

Like mouldy, I'm still not happy that no explanation has been given on this site regarding the use sponsorship monies were put too and I doubt it never will be.

Tim.
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2001 Z3 1.9 Roadster Sport - 2012 Z4 sDrive 2.0 M Sport

shantybeater
Joined: Wed 12 Mar, 2008 14:33
Posts: 1963

  Porsche
Location: UK

Post by shantybeater » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 12:37

TitanTim wrote:
I just wished Tim Cullis was more forthcoming with his plans if any for this site and too move it forward, but I don't think its going too happen, he's not interested in Zeds anymore but still still wants full reigns on this site which is a pity, hence the thread on copyrighting etc. It would have been much better to have let go and passed the site over to a member/s to take it forward in the style and spirit of .org site whilst still keeping all the knowledge base intact. Yes its still here but as said posts on here are getting less and less which means the masses have already making their minds up.
I think you've hit the nail on the head here. We all need to think what is best for the community and having two sites battling out is not the answer...
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Progress Thread:http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=36117
Previous - S54 M Roadster, S50 M Roadster, Ibiza Cupra IHI 340bhp, Ibiza Cupra K04 270bhp, 6n2 Polo GTi

shantybeater
Joined: Wed 12 Mar, 2008 14:33
Posts: 1963

  Porsche
Location: UK

Post by shantybeater » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 12:45

Strange? i cant edit my post...

I'm not necessarily saying get rid of .net or for Tim to just let go of the site, he's spent 10+ years keeping it going so i'm not suprised he doesnt want to pass it on. Perhaps allowing admin more power so they can upgrade the software/pull the site backup when its down and give it the TLC it deserves.....
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Progress Thread:http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=36117
Previous - S54 M Roadster, S50 M Roadster, Ibiza Cupra IHI 340bhp, Ibiza Cupra K04 270bhp, 6n2 Polo GTi

gookah
Z Register member
Joined: Thu 07 Aug, 2008 10:51
Posts: 2725

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Post by gookah » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 13:04

shantybeater wrote:Strange? i cant edit my post...
that'll be the upgrade then..... :D
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Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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TitanTim
Joined: Mon 23 Jun, 2008 19:56
Posts: 5488

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Stafford

Post by TitanTim » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 15:59

I couldn't edit my post this morning as too many spelling mistakes :oops:

A cunning plan is afoot :shock:

Tim.
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2001 Z3 1.9 Roadster Sport - 2012 Z4 sDrive 2.0 M Sport

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Jonttt
Z Register member
Joined: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 16:32
Posts: 6536

  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Post by Jonttt » Tue 03 Jan, 2012 13:22

Any update on planned changes or confirmation things will remain the same :?:
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
Image Video or Journal Garage: 2015 FFRR Black Edition, Porsche Boxster GTS, 1997 Porsche Carrara C4S, Ex 2001 BMW S54 Z3m Roadster

gookah
Z Register member
Joined: Thu 07 Aug, 2008 10:51
Posts: 2725

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Post by gookah » Tue 03 Jan, 2012 17:56

Jonttt wrote:Any update on planned changes or confirmation things will remain the same :?:



:pc Computer says no...... :D
Image

Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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Gazza
Site Admin
Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 21:58
Posts: 9174

  M roadster S54
Location: East London/Essex

Post by Gazza » Tue 03 Jan, 2012 20:14

I'm embarrassed to say I have no update to give.

I have not been involved in the discussions re the update.
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

S54 M roadster Image Mustang Fastback, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL.

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Mouldy
Joined: Mon 26 Jan, 2009 19:40
Posts: 538

  Not specified
Location: Northampton

Post by Mouldy » Tue 03 Jan, 2012 21:08

garythefish wrote:I'm embarrassed to say I have no update to give.

I have not been involved in the discussions re the update.
I wouldn't say that there is any need for you to be embarrassed regarding the lack of info on the proposed update, Gary.

As far as we know, there is still only one person responsible for the upkeep and continued existence of .net and he is the same person who left it offline (without notification) for a couple of weeks before Christmas and then got annoyed when he came in for some criticism when the site came back online and asked for more contibutions towards the upkeep of the site.

I wonder how much more interest he shows in the other Forums he runs?
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Skoda Octavia vRS TSi DSG on Tour at Rocamadour

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TitanTim
Joined: Mon 23 Jun, 2008 19:56
Posts: 5488

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Stafford

Post by TitanTim » Tue 03 Jan, 2012 21:52

garythefish wrote:I'm embarrassed to say I have no update to give.

I have not been involved in the discussions re the update.
Definitely no need too feel embarrassed......I mean, its not like were all sitting in front of our PC's in Jodpurs :oops: :lol:

Tim.
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2001 Z3 1.9 Roadster Sport - 2012 Z4 sDrive 2.0 M Sport

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Badman gee
Joined: Sun 14 Nov, 2010 10:45
Posts: 2299

  M roadster S50

Post by Badman gee » Tue 03 Jan, 2012 21:53

TitanTim wrote:
garythefish wrote:I'm embarrassed to say I have no update to give.

I have not been involved in the discussions re the update.
Definitely no need too feel embarrassed......I mean, its not like were all sitting in front of our PC's in Jodpurs :oops: :lol:

Tim.

Wonderful Tim wonderful :lol:
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The 'BEAST' 666

Phil
Joined: Sun 09 Mar, 2008 10:43
Posts: 2694

  M roadster S54
Location: Solihull

Post by Phil » Tue 03 Jan, 2012 22:25

I too have no further info. on the matter.
What I can say is that Tim had a long discussion regarding the issues and is aware of peoples anxieties about the site.
Sorry but I just dont know anymore.
Sapphire black/Imola red and black interior/ red roof/ S54 - the only RHD one made.

"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."

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TitanTim
Joined: Mon 23 Jun, 2008 19:56
Posts: 5488

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Stafford

Post by TitanTim » Tue 03 Jan, 2012 22:27

Thanks Phil, oh well the main thing is the site is still up and running which is the main thing :P

Tim.
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2001 Z3 1.9 Roadster Sport - 2012 Z4 sDrive 2.0 M Sport

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Sorcerors Apprentice
Joined: Thu 26 Aug, 2010 22:53
Posts: 272

  Other roadster

Post by Sorcerors Apprentice » Tue 03 Jan, 2012 22:58

TitanTim wrote:Thanks Phil, oh well the main thing is the site is still up and running which is the main thing :P

Tim.
You are only saying that because you did not get your 2 quid back........ :lol:
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Jonttt
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Joined: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 16:32
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  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Post by Jonttt » Wed 04 Jan, 2012 00:24

Thanks for the reply Phil and Gary.

I have to say that it is very disappointing that the main areas of concern ie the site apparently being totally dependant on one person to administer, has not been resolved.

This would seem to be the most critical and yet easiest to resolve issue and the only one which personally concerns me.

I would have thought that it would be accepted by all that simple good practice and common sense would mean that the entire site should not be dependant on one person alone. This is no reflection at all on this being Tims site which is a given to me and putting good practice in place does not affect his ownership of the site at all.

I therefore cannot think of any logical reason why this simple to resolve issue has not been resolved already given the recent problems experienced due simply to this lack of contingency in administration.

I can only assume therefore that Tim wishes to maintain sole and full control of the site which of course is his right to do but I personally do not feel this is in the best interest of the site going forward.

I would like to think that contributions made to this site (past and future) will be available to the benefit of Z owners for a long time to come but I fear this perceived stance by Tim does not facilitate that.

I think the depth of feeling no matter how ill judged in its expression shown by active members on the forum when it was down for so long is just a reflection of how much people value this forum.

I have to say that from my point of view the perceived lack of acknowledgement of peoples logical and well meant concerns over basic contingency planning in the best interests of the sites future at no detriment to the site owner and no cost (assuming the admin team are as keen to support this as I think they are) is very dispappointing and I think shows a lack of respect for peoples time and effort put into supporting forum and their concerns for its stability and future. Personally I feel that every post I make now on this forum is devalued because of this (if that makes sense).

As always I am more than open and hope Tim will take the trouble to explain his position with regard to this particular issue which I think is a key indicator to the future of the site. Until such time in the back of my mind the forum may disappear forever at any time which is a sad way to take things forward for me at least.
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
Image Video or Journal Garage: 2015 FFRR Black Edition, Porsche Boxster GTS, 1997 Porsche Carrara C4S, Ex 2001 BMW S54 Z3m Roadster

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EnthuZiaZT
Joined: Sat 12 Sep, 2009 15:27
Posts: 442

  Z3 roadster 2.0
Location: Sutton, Cambridgeshire

ZRoadster.net future

Post by EnthuZiaZT » Wed 04 Jan, 2012 22:15

It seems to me that people are being very uncharitable here, after all a good many of us have used the facilities on .net for a long while, without considering the effort required to keep the site up and running. For my part, I have used it mainly as an instrument to contact like minded people and to respond to various threads that have caught my eye. I suspect that there are many like me, who just use .net as a source of information and to see what is going on in the Zed world.
In my opinion, the site has been excellent, ok there was a slight hiccup before Christmas, but it is not a reason to damn the site forever. it is after all, intentionally I believe, what one might call a family site that anybody can enter and partake without fear of being ridiculed for their ideas or lack of knowledge about BMW Z cars.
I think it is good that profanity has been banned and many members appreciate that fact alone.
I take the site for what it is, rather than trying to change it.
I have always felt if an idea requires change then you have to be part of it to help it change. not desert it because you can't get your own way.
Mike
Mike & Sandy - Mora Metallic Individual 2.0L

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Badman gee
Joined: Sun 14 Nov, 2010 10:45
Posts: 2299

  M roadster S50

Re: ZRoadster.net future

Post by Badman gee » Wed 04 Jan, 2012 22:26

EnthuZiaZT wrote:It seems to me that people are being very uncharitable here, after all a good many of us have used the facilities on .net for a long while, without considering the effort required to keep the site up and running. For my part, I have used it mainly as an instrument to contact like minded people and to respond to various threads that have caught my eye. I suspect that there are many like me, who just use .net as a source of information and to see what is going on in the Zed world.
In my opinion, the site has been excellent, ok there was a slight hiccup before Christmas, but it is not a reason to damn the site forever. it is after all, intentionally I believe, what one might call a family site that anybody can enter and partake without fear of being ridiculed for their ideas or lack of knowledge about BMW Z cars.
I think it is good that profanity has been banned and many members appreciate that fact alone.
I take the site for what it is, rather than trying to change it.
I have always felt if an idea requires change then you have to be part of it to help it change. not desert it because you can't get your own way.
Mike
Mike, i agree. people can be very fickle.
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gookah
Z Register member
Joined: Thu 07 Aug, 2008 10:51
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: ZRoadster.net future

Post by gookah » Wed 04 Jan, 2012 22:59

EnthuZiaZT wrote: I have always felt if an idea requires change then you have to be part of it to
I was going to let this comment go, but I cannot.
I think that is the niggling part of all of this debate. Many people have put their hands in their pockets to be part of the changes suggested by Tim, but this has not materialised. The Mods are also trying to be part of these change s that appear to be falling on deaf ears.
I find it, frankly, galling that you can intimate that we have sat back and complained, and have no right too because we have not been a part of it...
This was not for want of trying, or want of assisting with the requests for funding.
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Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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