zroadster.net future, copyright and other issues

What's happening in the wider BMW scene? Gossip and news about forthcoming models. Plus off-topic chat.

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gookah
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Re: ZRoadster.net future

Post by gookah » Wed 04 Jan, 2012 23:05

EnthuZiaZT wrote:It seems to me that people are being very uncharitable here,
Maybe you need to ask for the 'ZRoadster Sponsor' to be added to your signature, to validate your comment :D
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I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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Badman gee
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Post by Badman gee » Wed 04 Jan, 2012 23:35

This site was good enough for everyone until it was off air for a while.

Mike is entitled to his view, as everyone else is.





:)
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pingu
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Re: ZRoadster.net future

Post by pingu » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 00:49

gookah wrote:
EnthuZiaZT wrote:It seems to me that people are being very uncharitable here,
Maybe you need to ask for the 'ZRoadster Sponsor' to be added to your signature, to validate your comment :D
EnthuZiaZT - you can borrow mine if you want :D .
Pingu

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Mouldy
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Re: zroadster.net future, copyright and other issues

Post by Mouldy » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 09:08

tim.cullis wrote:There's been a lot of discussion on this board in the last couple of weeks over the problems with the site and whilst I have already apologised for the breakdown in service, I do so again here. Although I have not made a public post about the future, in the mods subforum area I have outlined five different ways of moving forward with various site upgrades. Please be patient for a few days whilst this is discussed. . . . . .
The question is how many days constitutes a few?

Both Phil and Gary have posted that they have no news and Tim appears to continue resisting making any follow up to the original post in this thread.

As far as being uncharitable is concerned, the meat of this Forum has been posted by the members. After all, who has taken the time and trouble to have written up all of the 'how to's' and taken the photos to accompany them. All of the progress journals and 'cruise reports' have taken time to write and upload, not to mention the hundreds of photos that have been uploaded to hosting sites so they can be viewed on here.

Surely its fair for the members, who have created the substance that makes the Forum so enjoyable, to want to know that their content will be there to continue to be read and enjoyed for years to come and not be lost when the owner of the site apparently loses interest in it.

I, for one, used Snoops excellent thread on how to change the seatbelt guides and found it easy to follow and immensely useful. It saved me some hard earned into the bargain. None of us want to lose that kind of information.

Also, take a look at the Home Page . . . it's still listing forthcoming events as November's Picture of the Month competition and three Christmas parties that took place some weeks ago. I see no mention of Zedfest, which must surely be one of the biggest Zed related events ever in this country.

I realise that the maintenance of the site is not a full time job for somebody, but surely there has to be enough interest to keep it current and with a contingency in place for when something extraordinary occurs, such as happened recently, which kept the Forum offline for a couple of weeks.
EnthuZiaZT wrote: . . . . . I have always felt if an idea requires change then you have to be part of it to help it change. not desert it because you can't get your own way.
Mike
I couldn't agree more. How can we help it to change when the owner of the site doesn't appear to want any changes?

As Giles said earlier 'Let the masses decide', but good and valid points have bee raised by Jonttt, Hard Top and Gookah, amongst others, which still need to be addressed.
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Dave L2
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Re: ZRoadster.net future

Post by Dave L2 » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 12:03

gookah wrote:
EnthuZiaZT wrote:It seems to me that people are being very uncharitable here,
Maybe you need to ask for the 'ZRoadster Sponsor' to be added to your signature, to validate your comment :D
How do you know he isn't a sponsor?

I've donated in the passed but chose not to have the monika added to my profile. I don't feel the need to advertise the fact that I've donated money nor do I feel that it makes my comments or opinions more or less valid than anyone elses.
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gookah
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Post by gookah » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 18:04

I didn't say he wasn't. I asked him to get it added to his signature so we know that he can validate his response. If he hasn't sponsored then I don't think the remarks to those that have are justified
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Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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Gazza
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Re: zroadster.net future, copyright and other issues

Post by Gazza » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 18:24

Mouldy wrote:Also, take a look at the Home Page . . . it's still listing forthcoming events as November's Picture of the Month competition and three Christmas parties that took place some weeks ago. I see no mention of Zedfest, which must surely be one of the biggest Zed related events ever in this country.
Now rectified :wink:
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

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Dave L2
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Post by Dave L2 » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 18:54

gookah wrote:I didn't say he wasn't. I asked him to get it added to his signature so we know that he can validate his response. If he hasn't sponsored then I don't think the remarks to those that have are justified
Well, if anyone thinks that donations to this site entitle their opinions to have any more weight than anyone elses, regardless of whether they donated or not, then I would hope they have wasted their money.

Sponsorship or not, monika or not all opinions should be considered equally valid.

Besides, if ammount of money contributed is an indication of opinion validity then as, I am sure, Tim has contributed the most over the years no-one is in a position to question his descisions.
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 20:09

Not questioning his decisions just asking what those decisions are which I think is reasonable ? The site is already suffering from a drop in activity which I can only put down to a lack of clarity and promised information.

Even the admin team are apologising for this which seems unfair on them also to be left in the dark.
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
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Dave L2
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Post by Dave L2 » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 20:32

Jonttt wrote:Not questioning his decisions just asking what those decisions are which I think is reasonable ? The site is already suffering from a drop in activity which I can only put down to a lack of clarity and promised information.

Even the admin team are apologising for this which seems unfair on them also to be left in the dark.
I would agree with all of that and I would go as far as saying that Tim is probably doing himself more harm than good by not issuing an update, even is that update is "Nothing is going to change".

That being said, as long as zroadster continues, I couldn't care less if the site changes or not.

zroadster has "seen off" several other z sites in the time that I have been a member here and it's still kicking, so that has to count for something.
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 23:08

Dave our thinking is similar but the difference is I would like to think anything I invest time and effort in is worthwhile.

I don't want to duplicate effort between 2 sites and so feel I'm being forced to choose between them which I resent.

It should be an easy decision for me to continue to support this forum but Tims apparent apathy to genuine and well meant concerns makes that far harder than it should be, very frustrating and feels like I'm in limbo.

I have no dillusions this is a very personal issue for me and I'm not saying I would stop using the forum but I am far less active on it than I normally would be and feel less incentive to participate, in a type of limbo if you like.

I fully accept the update could be nothing will change which is fine. Whatever the update I will decide how that affects my personal use of this forum going forward but I cannot make that decision yet and I cannot understand logically why the promised update has not been provided. The fact the admin team are not involved apparently just adds to the confusion.

At the risk of repeating the obvious I have no issue with Tim at all other than a lack of perceived reluctance to provide the promised update in his thinking.

In simple terms when the site was down for so long there was the realisation that under its current setup it could simply cease to exist at any time or go down again for long periods of time. Personally I feel that's not right and unfair on its members. A good example was Robert who was trying to organise the annual Calander which raises money for the site, the site being down really affected this process and due to the way things were handled the most active current members who were likely to have bought the majority of those calanders have now deserted this forum. I don't thing that was fair on Robert at all especially when there is such an easy and free solution ie shared day to day admin rights amongst the admin team which would have resulted in minimal downtime.

I'm really not trying to be controversial, I've said my piece and so will now wait patiently again for the promised update.
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
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Dave L2
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Post by Dave L2 » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 09:15

Jonttt wrote:Dave our thinking is similar but the difference is I would like to think anything I invest time and effort in is worthwhile.
Reading between the lines of your previous posts I knew this was your motivation for asking and I am sure many people feel the same.

For me, this forum has provided me with a huge amount of useful information, entertainment, days out, weekends away and introduced me to several people I would consider friends. For that reason it will continue to have my full support until it is here no longer.

You are right in saying that the contigency would be obvious and straightforward to implement and confirm to common sense, but zroadster has lasted this long without a contingency so what's to say it won't continue to do so.

I, like you, will continue to wait for an update from Tim, but it won't stop me from continuing to use the site.
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gookah
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Post by gookah » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 10:54

Dave L2 wrote: Well, if anyone thinks that donations to this site entitle their opinions to have any more weight than anyone elses, regardless of whether they donated or not, then I would hope they have wasted their money.

Sponsorship or not, monika or not all opinions should be considered equally valid.

Besides, if ammount of money contributed is an indication of opinion validity then as, I am sure, Tim has contributed the most over the years no-one is in a position to question his descisions.
Well in fact I do believe that contributions entitle me to a greater opinion on this particular subject because I am financially involved. And if those that have not contributed to the promises of an updated site, then complain that we sponsors should be happy with the situation I would like to know what has this subject got do do with them?
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Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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g8jka
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Post by g8jka » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 14:06

Surely people are entitled to know where there money has gone, its like buying something and waiting for weeks and weeks for it but it never turns up. Then you try and contact the supplier, yet get no response or replies to any messages.

You wouldn't just leave it and say bye bye to your money would you? You would keep on and on until you get a response, exactly what people will do here.

Members are going to go on and on now and the forum will get worse and worse with members bitching between each other, all because Tim hasn't come back with a reply.

He hasn't even got the decency to support his own admin team and give them any answers!

And before anyone asks, I have made donations through stickers and calendars in the past even though I don't have a sponsorship title, I never felt the need for it.
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Geoff H
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Post by Geoff H » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 14:33

g8jka wrote:Surely people are entitled to know where there money has gone, its like buying something and waiting for weeks and weeks for it but it never turns up. Then you try and contact the supplier, yet get no response or replies to any messages.

You wouldn't just leave it and say bye bye to your money would you? You would keep on and on until you get a response, exactly what people will do here.

Members are going to go on and on now and the forum will get worse and worse with members bitching between each other, all because Tim hasn't come back with a reply.

He hasn't even got the decency to support his own admin team and give them any answers!

And before anyone asks, I have made donations through stickers and calendars in the past even though I don't have a sponsorship title, I never felt the need for it.
I have always thought of a donation as a gift, you don’t check where any donation made to the Poppy Appeal goes. It should be remembered that the site has been running since 2003 and the cost covered mostly by Tim. I’ve been a member here from the start (and the site before it run by David M) and will continue visit the site whether it changes or not.
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g8jka
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Post by g8jka » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 15:36

[quote="Geoff H]
I have always thought of a donation as a gift, you don’t check where any donation made to the Poppy Appeal goes. It should be remembered that the site has been running since 2003 and the cost covered mostly by Tim. I’ve been a member here from the start (and the site before it run by David M) and will continue visit the site whether it changes or not.[/quote]

Yes I agree a donation is a gift, but Tim explained that the donations would be spent on upgrades yet the upgrades have not arrived. I'm sure if I donated money to the poppy appeal or any other cause if I asked for an answer to where or what my money was been used on I would be given an answer or at least an idea on what the money was used towards, they wouldn't just ignore there supporters.

I will still continue to use the site as it holds loads of helpful info and has been very beneficial to me and I am thankful for that. It all comes down to none of us wanting the site to die and dissapear into thin air.
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TWO
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Post by TWO » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 20:47

Jonttt wrote:Dave our thinking is similar but the difference is I would like to think anything I invest time and effort in is worthwhile.

I don't want to duplicate effort between 2 sites and so feel I'm being forced to choose between them which I resent.

It should be an easy decision for me to continue to support this forum but Tims apparent apathy to genuine and well meant concerns makes that far harder than it should be, very frustrating and feels like I'm in limbo.

I have no dillusions this is a very personal issue for me and I'm not saying I would stop using the forum but I am far less active on it than I normally would be and feel less incentive to participate, in a type of limbo if you like.

I fully accept the update could be nothing will change which is fine. Whatever the update I will decide how that affects my personal use of this forum going forward but I cannot make that decision yet and I cannot understand logically why the promised update has not been provided. The fact the admin team are not involved apparently just adds to the confusion.

At the risk of repeating the obvious I have no issue with Tim at all other than a lack of perceived reluctance to provide the promised update in his thinking.

In simple terms when the site was down for so long there was the realisation that under its current setup it could simply cease to exist at any time or go down again for long periods of time. Personally I feel that's not right and unfair on its members. A good example was Robert who was trying to organise the annual Calander which raises money for the site, the site being down really affected this process and due to the way things were handled the most active current members who were likely to have bought the majority of those calanders have now deserted this forum. I don't thing that was fair on Robert at all especially when there is such an easy and free solution ie shared day to day admin rights amongst the admin team which would have resulted in minimal downtime.

I'm really not trying to be controversial, I've said my piece and so will now wait patiently again for the promised update.
I totally agree with the comments above 100%.

For me too, it is becoming extremely frustrating skipping from one site based upon apathy and another based upon enthusiasm

I cannot understand the perceived attitude from some of the members that "its always been this way, so why change it" We all run our Zeds and take proventitive action to hopefully avoid problems ahead......i.e. service the engine, check tyre pressures, polish the paint work etc etc.

Surely "shared day to day admin rights amongst the admin team" would minimise any future downtime and encourage fresh development.

:head: :head: :head:

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Mouldy
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Post by Mouldy » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 08:08

g8jka wrote:Surely people are entitled to know where there money has gone, its like buying something and waiting for weeks and weeks for it but it never turns up. Then you try and contact the supplier, yet get no response or replies to any messages.

You wouldn't just leave it and say bye bye to your money would you? You would keep on and on until you get a response, exactly what people will do here.

Members are going to go on and on now and the forum will get worse and worse with members bitching between each other, all because Tim hasn't come back with a reply.

He hasn't even got the decency to support his own admin team and give them any answers!

And before anyone asks, I have made donations through stickers and calendars in the past even though I don't have a sponsorship title, I never felt the need for it.
Steady boys!!!

You know what will happen to this thread if it gets too controversial!!
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 12:17

Site was down again last night, says it all really :roll:
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Gazza
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Post by Gazza » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 13:04

Jonttt wrote:Site was down again last night, says it all really :roll:
What does it say ?
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

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Mouldy
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Post by Mouldy » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 13:43

garythefish wrote:
Jonttt wrote:Site was down again last night, says it all really :roll:
What does it say ?
This?
Jonttt wrote: . . . . . . In simple terms when the site was down for so long there was the realisation that under its current setup it could simply cease to exist at any time or go down again for long periods of time. Personally I feel that's not right and unfair on its members. A good example was Robert who was trying to organise the annual Calander which raises money for the site, the site being down really affected this process and due to the way things were handled the most active current members who were likely to have bought the majority of those calanders have now deserted this forum. I don't thing that was fair on Robert at all especially when there is such an easy and free solution ie shared day to day admin rights amongst the admin team which would have resulted in minimal downtime. . . . . . . .
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Mouldy
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Post by Mouldy » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 13:53

Who's nicked the EDIT button????? :?

It looks like `Tim has other things on his mind at the moment;

http://www.morocco-knowledgebase.net/fo ... .php?t=282
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Gazza
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Post by Gazza » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 15:07

That post is 8 days old, what does that say ???

The facts are....................This is Tims site, he obviously has fingers in other pies and is quite entitled to do so.

We have to accept that things 'may' change when Tim is good and ready, until then no amount of bone picking will change anything.

I want to see this Forum updated and daily control handed over to at least two others so that any future malfunctions can be handled with minimum disruption.
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

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pete59
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Post by pete59 » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 15:17

This forum was the first car based forum i have ever joined,just over a year ago and was great,just recently it has started to become unpredictable and disappointing,i can understand the mods defending what they moderate,but then so did the titanics designer.There is now a new and bright alternative and is made up of what seems the heart of this once great forum,for me org offers a much better bet at this moment in time.If the leader cannot lead then the site will be losed. :head:

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TitanTim
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Post by TitanTim » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 16:08

garythefish wrote:That post is 8 days old, what does that say ???

The facts are....................This is Tims site, he obviously has fingers in other pies and is quite entitled to do so.

We have to accept that things 'may' change when Tim is good and ready, until then no amount of bone picking will change anything.

I want to see this Forum updated and daily control handed over to at least two others so that any future malfunctions can be handled with minimum disruption.
I would be surprised if that happens Gary. I really can't see this site changing in any form or shape in the future. I'm happy so long as it doesn't keep going offline and one can carry on participating.

Tim.
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Gazza
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Post by Gazza » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 16:38

TitanTim wrote:
garythefish wrote:That post is 8 days old, what does that say ???

The facts are....................This is Tims site, he obviously has fingers in other pies and is quite entitled to do so.

We have to accept that things 'may' change when Tim is good and ready, until then no amount of bone picking will change anything.

I want to see this Forum updated and daily control handed over to at least two others so that any future malfunctions can be handled with minimum disruption.
I would be surprised if that happens Gary. I really can't see this site changing in any form or shape in the future. I'm happy so long as it doesn't keep going offline and one can carry on participating.

Tim.
Tim, it's unknown, why 'speculate' the downfall of the Forum, most are being so pessimistic it's becoming depressing to read. :(
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

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TitanTim
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Post by TitanTim » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 16:48

garythefish wrote:
TitanTim wrote:
garythefish wrote:That post is 8 days old, what does that say ???

The facts are....................This is Tims site, he obviously has fingers in other pies and is quite entitled to do so.

We have to accept that things 'may' change when Tim is good and ready, until then no amount of bone picking will change anything.

I want to see this Forum updated and daily control handed over to at least two others so that any future malfunctions can be handled with minimum disruption.
I would be surprised if that happens Gary. I really can't see this site changing in any form or shape in the future. I'm happy so long as it doesn't keep going offline and one can carry on participating.

Tim.
Tim, it's unknown, why 'speculate' the downfall of the Forum, most are being so pessimistic it's becoming depressing to read. :(
It is becoming depressing to read as I think most members on here have made their own minds up as to the future of this site. I think TC has had plenty of time to say if this site has a future or not.

Tim.
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Gazza
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Post by Gazza » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 17:15

TitanTim wrote:I think most members on here have made their own minds up as to the future of this site.

Tim.
That's their choice, they are still welcome to come and participate if they wish. :)
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

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Robert T
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Post by Robert T » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 19:27

As far as I am aware there are several people with admin rights over the forum software, however, there are a few things to which Tim is the sole keytholder - namely domain registrations and hosting - without a second point of contact who is authorized by the hosting company to action things, I'm afraid other outages are still possible.

The site being down yesterday and earlier today looked very much like a network problem with the hosting company, something over which none of us (including Tim) has any control. The only thing that may have speeded up getting the site back up is having more people able to raise support calls.

I still have an enthusiasm for this forum, which has not waned after six years. Whilst I would like to see it move forwards, Tim has provided us with a happy home and for this I am grateful.

Cheers R.
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Location: Putney

Post by Zmeagol » Sun 08 Jan, 2012 19:38

TitanTim wrote:I think TC has had plenty of time to say if this site has a future or not.
Don't understand the constant negative posts by TitanTim. I would have thought the original post on this thread outlined the future. Although things were fairly hectic over the holidays I haven't been inactive behind the scenes, even though some of the postings on here aren't exactly motivating.

Apologies for the recent outage, I was otherwise engaged and wasn't even aware of it until it was over.

Tim

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TitanTim
Joined: Mon 23 Jun, 2008 19:56
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Stafford

Post by TitanTim » Sun 08 Jan, 2012 20:07

Zmeagol wrote:
TitanTim wrote:I think TC has had plenty of time to say if this site has a future or not.
Don't understand the constant negative posts by TitanTim. I would have thought the original post on this thread outlined the future. Although things were fairly hectic over the holidays I haven't been inactive behind the scenes, even though some of the postings on here aren't exactly motivating.

Apologies for the recent outage, I was otherwise engaged and wasn't even aware of it until it was over.

Tim
I think frustration is the word along with many others who use the site. I still haven't seen any explanation regarding the sponsorship monies gifted last year and what use this was put too if any and if not then what use it will be put too? Myself along with many others anticipated this money was for the upkeep and continuation of the site with improvements, if this is the case then great all is well, its just no explanation has been given by yourself hence to some extend my negativity. As far as I can see the original post is regarding copyright issues. If I have missed a post regarding the monies then I apologise and would be pleased to see any post regarding this.

Tim.
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2001 Z3 1.9 Roadster Sport - 2012 Z4 sDrive 2.0 M Sport

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Jonttt
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  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Post by Jonttt » Sat 21 Jan, 2012 09:55

Any updates yet guys ?

Still waiting for any sort of comment on what's happening / progress to date.

I hope the comments made were not simply to placate peoples concerns as they were taken in good faith
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
Image Video or Journal Garage: 2015 FFRR Black Edition, Porsche Boxster GTS, 1997 Porsche Carrara C4S, Ex 2001 BMW S54 Z3m Roadster

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Giles
Joined: Fri 10 Oct, 2003 18:51
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  Not specified

Post by Giles » Sat 21 Jan, 2012 10:37

There will be a major announcement soon.

Phil
Joined: Sun 09 Mar, 2008 10:43
Posts: 2694

  M roadster S54
Location: Solihull

Post by Phil » Sat 21 Jan, 2012 10:54

Be patient people - dont think it'll be long now.
Sapphire black/Imola red and black interior/ red roof/ S54 - the only RHD one made.

"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."

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Jonttt
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Posts: 6536

  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Post by Jonttt » Sat 21 Jan, 2012 12:15

Cool, I'm all excited now :D
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
Image Video or Journal Garage: 2015 FFRR Black Edition, Porsche Boxster GTS, 1997 Porsche Carrara C4S, Ex 2001 BMW S54 Z3m Roadster

freds dad
Joined: Thu 18 Mar, 2010 15:28
Posts: 531

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Macclesfield

Post by freds dad » Sat 21 Jan, 2012 12:25

Phil wrote:Be patient people - dont think it'll be long now.
But will it be good news or bad news?

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Giles
Joined: Fri 10 Oct, 2003 18:51
Posts: 2287

  Not specified

Post by Giles » Sat 21 Jan, 2012 13:33

It will most certainly not be bad news!

There will be plenty of opportunities for users to contribute and let us have opinions and views shortly once announcements are made.

Meanwhile I think this thread has run it's course so I'm locking it now.

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