BMW Z2
- BladeRunner919
- Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
- Posts: 2225
Re: BMW Z2
Ugly and front wheel drive.
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- Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 09:28
- Posts: 1733
- Location: Manchester
Re: BMW Z2
I think it's nice - at least with front wheel drive it might move in the snow
Re: BMW Z2
The back wing looks a shocker! Like it from the front tho.
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- Joined: Fri 03 Jun, 2011 21:56
- Posts: 127
- Location: Brighton
Re: BMW Z2
looking forward to the M version; maybe something based on the Mini JCW GP?
Still should have RWD though.
Still should have RWD though.
Mac
Topaz Blue 2.2i Y2001 - only 16045 miles on the clock! (2011)
Update 04/14 - 18,702 miles
Topaz Blue 2.2i Y2001 - only 16045 miles on the clock! (2011)
Update 04/14 - 18,702 miles
Re: BMW Z2
FWD and small turbo petrol engines not for me, or Mrs ZC.
Hopefully from BMW's point of view it will do better in the market place than the E89 as that has not been one of BMW's greatest creations - Discussion on Z4 Forum.
Hopefully from BMW's point of view it will do better in the market place than the E89 as that has not been one of BMW's greatest creations - Discussion on Z4 Forum.
Hers: Z4 2.0i Sp --------------------- His: Z3 2.8
Re: BMW Z2
Not really surprised it’s based on the Mini (Peugoet/Citroen) drivetrain. Every technician I’ve spoken to (BMW or other) has said that the generation of engines used in the Z3s, E36 and earlier E46, were a highpoint in terms of toughness, quality and reliability. Unfortunately, those days are over and the aim is now to produce smaller, direct injection engines that produce higher & higher MPG and low emissions. Mrs Del drives a Mini; nice modern, smooth car but completely different to the Z3 and it doesn’t give the feeling of having the same bullet-proof mechanicals.
- Southernboy
- Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
- Posts: 6437
- Location: Johannesburg
Re: BMW Z2
..... a "mini" Z4... with FWD.... no thanks.... maybe the M with 4 WD might convince me... but then I would first look at the quattro TT.... comes with a hairdryer in the headrest...
Re: BMW Z2
Why are peeps so hung up with "RWD is best". If you plan on getting close to the limits of grip, then yes, you can balance the car more easily, but how often does that happen unless you drive like a loony?
FWD (& AWD) has the advantage of being able to drive out of a slippery side street onto a gritted main road.
FWD has the advantage of having more space for the driver and passengers.
What advantage does RWD have, except for handling? How often is this handling requirement needed by the average driver in the real world?
As far as the Z2 is concerned, if it looks good and feels good to drive "normally", then it's good enough. I think it will sell as well as any small roadster with a BMW badge (remember how the diesel E46 3 series [edit] convertible [/edit] was decried by the "purists"?).
BTW, I have a RWD car because I do drive like a loony, but I do it on a track. It hardly justifies BMW building 100,000+ cars just so a few loonies can balance a drift at Donington .
FWD (& AWD) has the advantage of being able to drive out of a slippery side street onto a gritted main road.
FWD has the advantage of having more space for the driver and passengers.
What advantage does RWD have, except for handling? How often is this handling requirement needed by the average driver in the real world?
As far as the Z2 is concerned, if it looks good and feels good to drive "normally", then it's good enough. I think it will sell as well as any small roadster with a BMW badge (remember how the diesel E46 3 series [edit] convertible [/edit] was decried by the "purists"?).
BTW, I have a RWD car because I do drive like a loony, but I do it on a track. It hardly justifies BMW building 100,000+ cars just so a few loonies can balance a drift at Donington .
Last edited by pingu on Tue 13 May, 2014 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
Pingu
Re: BMW Z2
I am no expert so may have this wrong
but RWD - to stabilise going into a corner you accelerate - car snaps into line
FWD you brake to stabilise...
I know which feels more instinctive / drives better when 'actively' driving
normal pootling around - makes no difference - but if you want to 'drive' it then RWD all the way...
Alasdair
but RWD - to stabilise going into a corner you accelerate - car snaps into line
FWD you brake to stabilise...
I know which feels more instinctive / drives better when 'actively' driving
normal pootling around - makes no difference - but if you want to 'drive' it then RWD all the way...
Alasdair
Re: BMW Z2
OT but if BMW are going FWD then there must be scope for a 2+1 seat soft-top with a full size rear seat placed behind but in the middle with your feet between the front seats.
It would also stop the pain of selling up when the 1st child arrives !
It would also stop the pain of selling up when the 1st child arrives !
Re: BMW Z2
The point is that 99,000 out of the 100,000 buyers of the new car won't be "driving" it, so why spend resources satisfying 1% of your buyers.akirk wrote:I know which feels more instinctive / drives better when 'actively' driving
normal pootling around - makes no difference - but if you want to 'drive' it then RWD all the way...
Alasdair
50,000 of the potential buyers will probably base the purchase on what it looks like.
I think it looks OK and those who want to throw it around will be able to do so much more easily in a car park (as long as the handbrake is not electric )
Pingu
Re: BMW Z2
I wonder if there is some sort of VOSA/TUV-type rule that stops that - possibly incase the occupant doesn't wear a seatbelt. It seems a good idea, especially as handbrake levers and gearsticks are becoming a thing of the past.henrycrun wrote:OT but if BMW are going FWD then there must be scope for a 2+1 seat soft-top with a full size rear seat placed behind but in the middle with your feet between the front seats.
It would also stop the pain of selling up when the 1st child arrives !
Pingu
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- Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 09:28
- Posts: 1733
- Location: Manchester
Re: BMW Z2
Many different opinions and that what makes this site great
Regarding BMW and their rear/front/four wheel drive preferences there are many thoughts however mine is this:
I prefer BMW over any car I can realistically buy (Aston and associated bills are out of my range) but I have an Audi A5 Quattro because I live in the foothills of saddleworth moor and need 4x4 drive. Why do BMW insist on not making any of their standard cars 4x4 drive. They miss a huge marketing opportunity in my opinion; even if they only limit it to the top of the range like Audi do?
Regarding BMW and their rear/front/four wheel drive preferences there are many thoughts however mine is this:
I prefer BMW over any car I can realistically buy (Aston and associated bills are out of my range) but I have an Audi A5 Quattro because I live in the foothills of saddleworth moor and need 4x4 drive. Why do BMW insist on not making any of their standard cars 4x4 drive. They miss a huge marketing opportunity in my opinion; even if they only limit it to the top of the range like Audi do?
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- Joined: Fri 12 Jun, 2009 12:11
- Posts: 252
- Location: Diss
Re: BMW Z2
You don't have to be driving like mad to benefit from rear wheel drive. When you are accelerating, the weight is transferred to the rear of the car, so that's were the driving wheels should be. When you are in a hurry to pull out of a junction, with a lock on, my focus front wheels are just spinning for grip. The Z3 can get out onto the main road a lot quicker and safer. A great shame about the Z2. There is just nowhere to go after a Z3. (Titan Tim has tried and failed).
- Southernboy
- Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
- Posts: 6437
- Location: Johannesburg
Re: BMW Z2
...... I'd like to see a mid engine AWD Z.... I'd even suffer a V6 vs a straight 6... but it would also need at least 400+ ponies, have a fully retractable top.. and not look like a Z4...
Re: BMW Z2
They do x-Drive 3 series. I don't know about other series.bertiejaffa wrote:Many different opinions and that what makes this site great
Regarding BMW and their rear/front/four wheel drive preferences there are many thoughts however mine is this:
I prefer BMW over any car I can realistically buy (Aston and associated bills are out of my range) but I have an Audi A5 Quattro because I live in the foothills of saddleworth moor and need 4x4 drive. Why do BMW insist on not making any of their standard cars 4x4 drive. They miss a huge marketing opportunity in my opinion; even if they only limit it to the top of the range like Audi do?
Pingu
Re: BMW Z2
I think if you can feel the weight transfer to the rear on acceleration, you are one of the 1% who "drive" the car . Most drivers would never notice.John Wilson wrote:You don't have to be driving like mad to benefit from rear wheel drive. When you are accelerating, the weight is transferred to the rear of the car, so that's were the driving wheels should be.
This has never happened to me unless I have been trying to get into flowing traffic when nobody is letting me out. I'm not too proud to not admit to bad driving and almost causing accidents by letting my impatience get the better of me as well .John Wilson wrote:When you are in a hurry to pull out of a junction, with a lock on, my focus front wheels are just spinning for grip.
I'm trying to think if there have been any bespoke FWD roadsters and I can't think of any. The only ones I can think of are based on an existing model.
Pingu
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- Joined: Fri 03 Jun, 2011 21:56
- Posts: 127
- Location: Brighton
Re: BMW Z2
MX-5? Did pretty well for a cheap FWD roadster...
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Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk
Mac
Topaz Blue 2.2i Y2001 - only 16045 miles on the clock! (2011)
Update 04/14 - 18,702 miles
Topaz Blue 2.2i Y2001 - only 16045 miles on the clock! (2011)
Update 04/14 - 18,702 miles
Re: BMW Z2
the one thing no-one has mentioned with FWD - torque-steer
the saab 2.3 full turbo I had would torque-steer in all 5 gears bit disconcerting when you are trying to accelerate and having to avoid ditches and random cows in the field alongside...
split steering and drive and you get a more comfortable acceleration...
Alasdair
the saab 2.3 full turbo I had would torque-steer in all 5 gears bit disconcerting when you are trying to accelerate and having to avoid ditches and random cows in the field alongside...
split steering and drive and you get a more comfortable acceleration...
Alasdair
Re: BMW Z2
There was the later Peter Stevens M100 Elan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elan
- BladeRunner919
- Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
- Posts: 2225
Re: BMW Z2
If driven backwards, perhaps! The MX-5 is RWD.Mac The Tank wrote:MX-5? Did pretty well for a cheap FWD roadster...
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Re: BMW Z2
Based on the MINI platform I believe and they don't seem too bad. The MINI is also available in 4wd so I am sure anything is possible and if it's front wheel drive it won't get stuck in the snow!!
As for front wheel drive poor handling most of the BTCC and WTCC cars are fwd and the hot hatches with 300 hp don't suffer torque steer now with the electronic differentials.
I think they will sell on looks so BM have to get that right and at a price to compete with MX5 and possibly cabio versions of Pug, Astra etc. They obviously won't make it with out a target market so what does everybody think would be the competition?
As for front wheel drive poor handling most of the BTCC and WTCC cars are fwd and the hot hatches with 300 hp don't suffer torque steer now with the electronic differentials.
I think they will sell on looks so BM have to get that right and at a price to compete with MX5 and possibly cabio versions of Pug, Astra etc. They obviously won't make it with out a target market so what does everybody think would be the competition?
Brian
3.0I Topaz Blue
2000 E36/7 Z3 3.0i
2016 F31 335d
2015 F21 118i
3.0I Topaz Blue
2000 E36/7 Z3 3.0i
2016 F31 335d
2015 F21 118i
Re: BMW Z2
Thats true in many respects, my Z4 was never intended to replace the Z3 as they are quite different. One of the reasons why I'm trading the Z4 in for an M135i is I wanted to buy a new BMW whilst they still making a good 6cyl engine as I believe in a few years they will be consigned to history. You can see the path BMW are taking with the 4cyl turbocharged engines replacing most of the 6cyl, the release of the new 3cyl for the MINI and the new Series 2 Active Tourer due in Sept and pushing the i3. Will be interesting to see how the M brand fares in years to come.John Wilson wrote: There is just nowhere to go after a Z3. (Titan Tim has tried and failed).
Tim.
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- Joined: Fri 03 Jun, 2011 21:56
- Posts: 127
- Location: Brighton
Re: BMW Z2
Really?? I never realised... Point taken thenBladeRunner919 wrote:If driven backwards, perhaps! The MX-5 is RWD.Mac The Tank wrote:MX-5? Did pretty well for a cheap FWD roadster...
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Mac
Topaz Blue 2.2i Y2001 - only 16045 miles on the clock! (2011)
Update 04/14 - 18,702 miles
Topaz Blue 2.2i Y2001 - only 16045 miles on the clock! (2011)
Update 04/14 - 18,702 miles
Re: BMW Z2
I've driven FWD and RWD cars.
I own 4 cars currently all RWD. I just think they are more fun. I also much prefer oversteer to understeer.
It's not a question of what is best on paper or whats practical, it's about feeling for me, passion.
There is no reason a 'sports car' cannot me RWD, it's a silly as saying a 'saloon car' must be FWD; it's only describing it's most basic format, a two seater recreational vehilce by my understanding.
I own 4 cars currently all RWD. I just think they are more fun. I also much prefer oversteer to understeer.
It's not a question of what is best on paper or whats practical, it's about feeling for me, passion.
There is no reason a 'sports car' cannot me RWD, it's a silly as saying a 'saloon car' must be FWD; it's only describing it's most basic format, a two seater recreational vehilce by my understanding.
1998 Z3 2.8 Arctic Silver
1991 Mazda MX5
1987 Nissan Silvia
1991 Mazda MX5
1987 Nissan Silvia
- Southernboy
- Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
- Posts: 6437
- Location: Johannesburg
Re: BMW Z2
Nothing more pleasant than getting to the top of my road at the T junction and pulling away up hill to the right, I can easily get the butt to slide into line, correct the steering and head straight up the hill... always reminds me of what the tradition of a two seater is all about... solid steering, grunt at the rear wheels and the top down.... but mostly I like it more than sex... because I get to do it as often as I like... and the orgasms are real... and as the baird Bob D. said.... "May your step always be joyful, and may you stay, forever young".
I love the tangibility of the Z3. It has kept in touch with the feeling of driving a car vs being carried by it. It doesn't allow too much innatention to keeping it where you want it to be. It's smooth motor engenders a sense of purpose and reliability. By no means the quickest cars, they are also not the slowest, and in spite of the naysayers, the sexist detractors and the unconverted, it is because of the variety of emotions it evokes that makes it as good as a Mona Lisa, with which it shares the same enigmatic interest from so many. It is as much of a compliment to hear someone say they don't like them... very few cars have enough character to compel such a comment. There are members here who are mostly concerned with the "look" of the car, others are mostly concerned with a hobby which allows them to escape to their cars to tinker.. other's still, are enjoying the tranformative expression of themselves to the car and changing small facets to individualise them... each is involved with his Z3.... but perhaps the true Z3 owner is the one who does at least one of the above but, above all takes every opportunity to drive the car.... and a great two seater tourer it is.... Now I think I'll take a drive up to the local.... and I can't wait to get to the T junction......
I love the tangibility of the Z3. It has kept in touch with the feeling of driving a car vs being carried by it. It doesn't allow too much innatention to keeping it where you want it to be. It's smooth motor engenders a sense of purpose and reliability. By no means the quickest cars, they are also not the slowest, and in spite of the naysayers, the sexist detractors and the unconverted, it is because of the variety of emotions it evokes that makes it as good as a Mona Lisa, with which it shares the same enigmatic interest from so many. It is as much of a compliment to hear someone say they don't like them... very few cars have enough character to compel such a comment. There are members here who are mostly concerned with the "look" of the car, others are mostly concerned with a hobby which allows them to escape to their cars to tinker.. other's still, are enjoying the tranformative expression of themselves to the car and changing small facets to individualise them... each is involved with his Z3.... but perhaps the true Z3 owner is the one who does at least one of the above but, above all takes every opportunity to drive the car.... and a great two seater tourer it is.... Now I think I'll take a drive up to the local.... and I can't wait to get to the T junction......
Re: BMW Z2
Southernboy wrote: I love the tangibility of the Z3. It has kept in touch with the feeling of driving a car vs being carried by it. It doesn't allow too much innatention to keeping it where you want it to be. It's smooth motor engenders a sense of purpose and reliability. By no means the quickest cars, they are also not the slowest, and in spite of the naysayers, the sexist detractors and the unconverted, it is because of the variety of emotions it evokes that makes it as good as a Mona Lisa, with which it shares the same enigmatic interest from so many. It is as much of a compliment to hear someone say they don't like them... very few cars have enough character to compel such a comment. There are members here who are mostly concerned with the "look" of the car, others are mostly concerned with a hobby which allows them to escape to their cars to tinker.. other's still, are enjoying the tranformative expression of themselves to the car and changing small facets to individualise them... each is involved with his Z3.... but perhaps the true Z3 owner is the one who does at least one of the above but, above all takes every opportunity to drive the car.... and a great two seater tourer it is.... Now I think I'll take a drive up to the local.... and I can't wait to get to the T junction......
They are still a hairdresser's car.....
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I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..