YOUR opinions on BMW Rip off Warranty

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ZZZEMMCO
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YOUR opinions on BMW Rip off Warranty

Post by ZZZEMMCO » Wed 15 Mar, 2006 14:48

For ALL extended warranty payers, who will no longer accept getting ripped off---This is your chance. BMW GB would like to receive comments on the subject .may review in 6 months.

FAO fay.wells@bmw.co.uk
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Alfie
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Re: YOUR opinions on BMW Rip off Warranty

Post by Alfie » Wed 15 Mar, 2006 14:50

ZZZEMMCO wrote:BMW GB would like to receive comments on the subject.
I bet they won't!

Excellent.
Well done Zzzemmco.

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Can we make this a STICKY to give more people the chance to see it?

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Post by Phoenix Nights » Wed 15 Mar, 2006 15:09

A good thing to do would be to refer them to the poll on this very forum. A whopping 90% declared that it was no longer worth renewing.

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Post by Bryn » Wed 15 Mar, 2006 19:21

I will definitely be compiling an email for them :evil: :evil: and telling them what a bunch of robbing ..... (insert own swearing).... they are! :evil: :evil:

Not sure it will do any good but it can't hurt. :?

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Post by Bloke » Wed 15 Mar, 2006 21:05

Tob be honest , with what has happened in the last month to my Z, I will definately consider it,

1 Blown Rear Diff, £1000 to fix
1 Blown water pump Bearings, new radiator, new opump and fan etc...
£???? find out tomorrow


So this year, if I include the new rear alloys, and 70% off the fronts, and fixed driverside window,

I think it has been well worth it , even if I take into account the last 3 years of extended warranty...

I will be considering it strongly..

Bloke

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Post by Alfie » Wed 15 Mar, 2006 23:13

Bloke wrote:1 Blown Rear Diff, £1000 to fix
1 Blown water pump Bearings, new radiator, new opump and fan etc...
£???? find out tomorrow......include the new rear alloys, and 70% off the fronts, and fixed driverside window....
So now we know the SOLE reason why BMW have been forced to hike their warranty prices so high....

:wink:

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Post by Nick » Thu 16 Mar, 2006 00:42

I was following a Hyundai through town today. On the rear window was a sticker <b>"5 year warranty"</b>.

That should send out a message to BMW marketing but I believe they are fairly relaxed about the future sales forecasts.


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Post by NorwegianBlue » Thu 16 Mar, 2006 11:35

Put my 2p's worth in, let's see if they reply and take note.

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Post by Gimlet » Thu 16 Mar, 2006 14:12

Here is the response I received ...
Thank you for your further communication.

We do appreciate the strength of feeling within the BM3W.co.uk web community but are not in a position to change the terms of our Insured Warranty products. We also appreciate that this may ultimately result in you not purchasing this product and regrettably may have a detrimental effect on your loyalty to our Brand.

Any further communication will be retained on file for future reference but will not receive a response.
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Post by Phoenix Nights » Thu 16 Mar, 2006 14:36

Gimlet wrote:Here is the response I received ...
Thank you for your further communication.

We do appreciate the strength of feeling within the BM3W.co.uk web community but are not in a position to change the terms of our Insured Warranty products. We also appreciate that this may ultimately result in you not purchasing this product and regrettably may have a detrimental effect on your loyalty to our Brand.

Any further communication will be retained on file for future reference but will not receive a response.
Fantastic :roll: Good on you, BMW. That's certainly a weight off my mind :head:

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Post by Alfie » Fri 17 Mar, 2006 09:25

Well I've written my letter, but I thought I'd send it next week as they're obviously getting pee'd off with all the emails right now.

I've decided to print it on nice paper, plop it in a quality envelope and stick it in the snail-mail. I figure it might have a bit more clout if sent by a more official medium.

I won't post the letter on here coz it's a bit of an epic, but if anybody wants to see it, PM me your email addy.

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Post by John Boy » Fri 17 Mar, 2006 09:33

Gimlet wrote:Here is the response I received ...
Thank you for your further communication.

We do appreciate the strength of feeling within the BM3W.co.uk web community but are not in a position to change the terms of our Insured Warranty products. We also appreciate that this may ultimately result in you not purchasing this product and regrettably may have a detrimental effect on your loyalty to our Brand.

Any further communication will be retained on file for future reference but will not receive a response.
Good one, there's nothing like good communications, especially after admitting that your loyalty is probably going to waver already! :roll:
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Post by Alfie » Fri 17 Mar, 2006 10:02

Johnboy

I read that to mean that they won't be responding to further communications from Gimlet or BMWCC.
I'm sure this can't apply to anyone else who writes.

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Post by Phoenix Nights » Fri 17 Mar, 2006 10:46

Alfie wrote:I read that to mean that they won't be responding to further communications from Gimlet or BMWCC.
I'm sure this can't apply to anyone else who writes.
I'm sure that's true - I would hope they will at least honour you with a reply (possibly the exact same one though).

However, reading between the lines, what BMW appear to be saying is basically:

1. Yes, we already know you don't like it
2. We ain't gonna do anything
3. So go away

I'd be interested in reading your letter please Alfie. Sadly my warranty expired last month so I'm out of the picture in essence, but I'm still aggrieved by it. The cost seems to have risen from five hundred to over a thousand in little over a year. Not good.

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Post by NorwegianBlue » Fri 17 Mar, 2006 15:06

I got a reply :D

"Thank you for your email dated March 16, 2006 regarding the extended warranty prices. I appreciate that this issue has been part of the reason that you may begin to look elsewhere for your motorcar. I am disappointed to hear this, however as a company we do appreciate your feedback.

The actions taken, as with any insured product are based on historic costs and the impact these have on the fund held by the Insurance Underwriter. Whilst BMW have in the past priced M product the same as its equivalent BMW model derivative, we believed that this was unfair to these owners who represent a lower warranty cost base.

None of our insured warranty products are profit making and the changes reflect our cost prediction based on actual historic trends.

With regard to the insurance excess we have introduced, this was done to keep the premium as low as possible.

Whilst we are very sorry that you have had cause to complain, we regret that it will not be possible to reduce the cost of these warranties in the future unless actual costs reduce.

I assure you of our attention.

Yours sincerely

Ben Montgomery
Customer Service Manager"


Alas it'll not do any good but here's his email address in case anyone else wants to try - Ben.Montgomery@bmw.co.uk

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Post by John Boy » Fri 17 Mar, 2006 18:01

Alfie, I think you are right that it applies to Gimlet, but from his point of view I would not be too impressed by that reply. Basically "we will ignore you from now on". :(
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Post by Gimlet » Sat 18 Mar, 2006 09:50

I believe it does apply to me specifically on this occasion as I had questioned their initial response that was similar to that found elsewhere on this thread.
I have been in touch with Alpina in Germany directly, and although they appear to be sympathetic the are not able to do anything as the Warranty is BMW's.
I had intended keeping the Alpina for the foreseeable future as it is a second car for pleasure use only, a rarity that I actually felt privelaged to own/drive, and something that I still get an enormous buzz from everytime I use it.
This now may not be the case.
What I can catagorically say is that the replacement for my current "workhorse", a Volvo S60 Auto, will not be a BMW. I do circa 35K-40K business miles per year and I had been talking with my Dealer regarding the purchase of a new diesel 5, but now I will definitely be taking my business elsewhere, and I have already actively started looking.
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Post by garyw » Tue 21 Mar, 2006 22:24

Update from BMW (taken from PH)

BMW has responded to the criticism currently being thrown in its direction following an increase in the cost of warranties for M cars -- see links below for related stories. The increase, up to 46 per cent in a year according to BMW customers, was widely hailed by BMW owners as being unnecessary and swingeing.

So we asked BMW what it thought of the matter. The response we got broadly confirmed the view that, in the company's eyes, M cars are more costly to fix, so that's why the warranties cost more to buy. This was also the reasoning set out in a letter to a customer a few days ago (see the related story below). Interestingly, BMW also included the issue of financial regulations as another price booster -- although such rules apply equally to all car makers, while BMW's warranty price increases have been compared adversely to those of Porsche.

Here's BMW's response in full:

"BMW has made warranty pricing decisions in light of the new FSA [Financial Services Authority] rules. These rules state that any extended warranty product needs to be regulated. In addition, we now have to apply non-recoverable Insurance Premium Tax and Value Added Tax to all policies. The new regulations also state that we have to involve an insurance company and therefore, as a consequence, we have had to increase extended warranty prices.

"We have taken steps to try and stabilise the costs by introducing an excess payment in the policy. Whilst this is unique to the warranty business, it is not new to the insurance industry and has the effect of helping to keep premiums low, as do the two separate mileage bands.

"Due to their complexity, M series cars cost more to repair than BMWs standard models. As the premiums are now controlled by an insurance underwriter, the cost of each warranty has to be calculated on its claim history and as a result, we have had to adjust prices accordingly.

"It is important to note that our Approved Used Car programme falls outside FSA regulation and any Approved Used Car bought from the BMW dealer network under this scheme will have, included in the screen price, a 12 month unlimited mileage warranty without excess or limits of coverage. It is also important to note that if any reader is considering purchasing a new Porsche, its products only come with a 2-year new car warranty rather than 3-year coverage on a BMW, meaning that an extended warranty would need to be purchased a year earlier."

So there you have it: statistically M cars cost more because they're more complex. While it's hard to draw conclusions from the small subset of the total ownership that's represented here on PistonHeads and elsewhere on forums, the chances are that a more complex product is more likely to fail than a simpler one.

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Post by Guest » Mon 15 May, 2006 09:57

I think BMW has lost site of the fact that a 'warranty' is to provide the buyer with piece of mind that you will not have to suffer in the event of something 'breaking' before the end if its planned lifecycle.

I am not sure that "you have to pay more because they are expensive to fix" is a great marketing message or a testament to BMWs engineering skill.

When people buy an ///M car they don't pay the extra money just for it to go fast, they pay the extra money for it not to break while doing it.

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Post by SpunkyM » Mon 15 May, 2006 13:27

siwilson wrote:I think BMW has lost site of the fact that a 'warranty' is to provide the buyer with piece of mind that you will not have to suffer in the event of something 'breaking' before the end if its planned lifecycle.

I am not sure that "you have to pay more because they are expensive to fix" is a great marketing message or a testament to BMWs engineering skill.

When people buy an ///M car they don't pay the extra money just for it to go fast, they pay the extra money for it not to break while doing it.
....EXACTLY !!! Well said Siwilson. The only reason they must be costing BMW so much money to put right is becasue they break down quite a lot and the parts that do break are really expensive. Hardly an encouragement to buy another BMW, let alone an M.

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Post by DavidM » Mon 15 May, 2006 14:01

SpunkyM wrote:... the parts that do break are really expensive ...
And therein lies the quandry - my little "breakdown" in Scotland would have left me with a very hefty bill had I not been covered by the warranty - way more than the cost of the warranty itself - so I came out of the deal smiling - had I not been covered by warranty I'd be crying about the whole thing - and had I gone through 2006 having paid the premium but not claimed - I wouldn't be disappointed but I would question the value ...

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Post by M Blur » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 01:13

I looked at the rise in warranty - warranty due up in September - sold M 8LUR before August.. nuff said. Own goal BMW - will only buy beemer again for daily drivers. :roll:

Hello Stuttgart.. nuff said.
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Post by nero » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 07:38

NorwegianBlue wrote:I got a reply :D

"Thank you for your email dated March 16, 2006 regarding the extended warranty prices. ......

None of our insured warranty products are profit making ......
<translation>

We've screwed you on the price of new cars.
We screw you on servicing/labour/parts

Might as well screw you for warranty while we're at it

Oh and if you could please stay loyal to the BMW brand - that would be nice too.

<end of translation>

Having waited 2 months (and still waiting) for them to come back to me re paintwork warranty, I'm not bitter :evil: :twisted:
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Post by Robin » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 09:22

Up until now the ///MR has been my daily driver. My warranty expired last week so I've decided to use my Mondeo as the daily driver instead.
£1030 + large excess is too dear.
I know the Mondeo is a simpler car, but literally ten times fewer things go wrong with it. In fact nothing goes wrong with it, including when I previously used it as my main car. But then it is ten times less fun to drive.
My only question now is do I join the RAC or AA for when I get a puncture in the ///M, or do I put some of that white gunge in the tyres. I think maybe RAC or AA best as that white gunge may upset the tyre balance & no good for large punctures.
Oh dear I'm drifting OT. Maybe it's time for me to start a thread about white gunge.

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Post by Nick » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 10:14

Robin wrote:Literally ten times fewer things go wrong with it
Robin,
I know you have had a few unscheduled visits to the workshops but most of the Zeds get nothing more than a clean and regular service. That's not very interesting so it's seldom said on here.
Hope you now get years of trouble free motoring with the ZM.

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Post by Robin » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 10:32

Hi Nick
I've had the aircon pump at cost of £450, seat rail got sloppy at £400 to replace, gear knob fell off in my hand £90, alarm sensors giving false alarms at around £400 to sort out, as labour intensive. That also failed on my previous ///M along with the seat rail. Fortunately all paid for under warranty. Maybe be I've been unlucky & now these probs are sorted along with a new Vanos & diff mount hopefully it'll be trouble free.
Most of my daily driving involves crawling along from one queue to the next at 25mph, where the ///M is hardly at it's best. From now on without warranty cover, I'm seeing the alternative way to insure against the likelyhood of costly repairs & depreciation, is to put less miles on the ///M. That way it'll seem like even more of a treat when I do drive her :)

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Post by Nick » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 10:54

The price of repairs is getting silly/greedy. You mention some costly items fitted recently, I would love to know the real cost to BMW, surely about a third in reality. So why don't BMW absorb some of this pretend money?
Bushes to fix seat rail slop are about £5.

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Post by Robin » Thu 05 Oct, 2006 11:19

Nick wrote:Bushes to fix seat rail slop are about £5.
That's true. If it happened again I'd explore that possibility.
One wonders if the garage really did fit a whole seat assembly or even needed to as they claim. I'm sure they often make the warranty appear to be giving more benefit than it really is. If so then on one hand they're making it seem like the warranty is saving you a fortune. At the same time they're making it seem like a BM's without a warranty cost a fortune to run, which then devalues older BM's. But hey, as they're in the business of selling new cars, maybe they just don't care. They prefer instead to milk the spare parts & extended warranty profits for what they're worth.
Except I don't think they'll have many extended warrantys from now on.
The only indisputably & unavoidably expensive repair I've ever had done on warranty is the Vanos. The diff mount was done as goodwill by BMW.

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Post by DougW. » Fri 06 Oct, 2006 02:35

Robin wrote:Hi Nick
I've had the aircon pump at cost of £450, seat rail got sloppy at £400 to replace, gear knob fell off in my hand £90, alarm sensors giving false alarms at around £400 to sort out, as labour intensive. That also failed on my previous ///M along with the seat rail. Fortunately all paid for under warranty. Maybe be I've been unlucky & now these probs are sorted along with a new Vanos & diff mount hopefully it'll be trouble free.
Most of my daily driving involves crawling along from one queue to the next at 25mph, where the ///M is hardly at it's best. From now on without warranty cover, I'm seeing the alternative way to insure against the likelyhood of costly repairs & depreciation, is to put less miles on the ///M. That way it'll seem like even more of a treat when I do drive her :)
Send me an e-mail when (not if!) the new rails get sloppy. I have an inexpensive, lifetime fix.

I can also take care of the knob fitment problem! :-)

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Post by Alfie » Mon 27 Nov, 2006 13:18

Just thought I'd tell you what happened this morning.

Silver has gone in to have the 'total closure' altered to exclude the soft top when I have the hard top on, so today I came to work in RED.

She was spluttery and rough which I put down to being cold and damp and not having been let out for about a fortnight. I wasn't too worried thinking that it would clear up as she warmed.

But no. The coughing and spluttering got worse and eventually the emissions light came on and I knew we were in a bit of trouble. I managed to nurse her all the way to work, thanking my stars that she didn't conk out on the A1M!

I was straight on the email to my dealer who obviously deflected my enquiry to BMW Assist.

One call to them and there was a man on his way. He arrived within an hour and diagnosed immediately from my description that it was a faulty ignition coil and the car was running on five cylinders. So the faulty coil was replaced, and seeing as they looked like the original set (nearly six years old) he very kindly replaced the other five too!

That's the second time I've used BMW Assist (via 'Mondial' I think) and both times have been a pleasant and confidence inspiring experience. The call centre girls are polite and appear reasonably knowledgeable. The mechanic was prompt, efficient, helpful, very smartly turned out and obviously knew his stuff, as you would expect.

Anyway, the reason I've posted in this thread is....RED is still covered by the one year purchase warranty (just), so all this came for free, but I wonder what it would have cost me under the renewable insured warranty that I might have to consider in January?????
Would it have been covered, and would it have cost more than the outrageous £250 excess?

To my mind, BMW Assist is an excellent service and one very good reason to keep BMW Warranty live, but is that enough to justify spending £1050 on (+£250 excess per claimed item) in January?

Still, ignition coils are one less thing to have to worry about for a while!

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Post by Robert T » Mon 27 Nov, 2006 13:41

Alfie, I think for an ///M, warranty and Assist/Emergency Service may well be a good idea. The ///M is much more finely tuned, and the parts that are specific to the ///M are expensive - if they gp wrong you could be in for a hefty bill. The non-///Ms use much more bulletproof engines which are also used in other models - in the last 25 years or so I think my dad has had at most two problems serious enough to warrant a trip straight to the dealer - I don't think he has ever been stuck at the roadside. I've had just two problems with mine, the first was a dead battery, which failed within the standard 3-year warranty, and the BMW Emergency Service guy that came out said that he thought that the battery must be defective to only last that long and replaced it FOC. My second problem was the intake camshaft sensor, and although I called the AA out, the car calmed down after the AA guy had a fiddle with the HT leads and I was able to drive away. I didn't renew my Emergency Service cover, or warranty based on that experience. I have maintained my AA cover, mainly so as not to get ripped off if ever I have the misfortune to breakdown on a motorway! At the end of the day it boils down to economics - are you going to spend more on the warranty than you expect to have to pay to keep the car on the road? They can save you a fortune if you are unlucky and have a big problem, but they can also be a waste of money if you don't. Anyway, I'm glad yours paid off and you are back up and running again. Cheers R.
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Post by Gazza » Mon 27 Nov, 2006 14:34

I have just spoken to Warranty Direct for cover on my ///M,

Gold cover inc. wear & tear
Franchised dealer with unlimited labour rate
13 months for the price of 12 months
£100 discount because I have an existing policy
Total cost £700


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hi

Post by 321bhp » Mon 27 Nov, 2006 14:38

rac gold warrenty only £400 :D :D

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Post by Gazza » Mon 27 Nov, 2006 14:38

Robin wrote:My only question now is do I join the RAC or AA for when I get a puncture in the ///M, or do I put some of that white gunge in the tyres. I think maybe RAC or AA best as that white gunge may upset the tyre balance & no good for large punctures.
Go for the Ultraseal, I have, and the balance problem is nothing after about five minutes, about the same time waiting for the oil temp to be correct

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Re: hi

Post by Gazza » Mon 27 Nov, 2006 14:47

321bhp wrote:rac gold warrenty only £400 :D :D
Any claims experience?

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Post by vanordinaire » Mon 27 Nov, 2006 20:16

Problem with BMW's is that someone has to pay for the pristine showroom and clean workshops - but it's something that's not just confined to a BMW.

Get your leg lifted just as far in a Honda dealer in my previous experience and I bet every other franchise has a similar tale to tell.

Upmarket image costs.

Under my 12 Month BMW used vehicle warranty I got a car exchanged within the 30 days as I was not happy with it. There were other bits and bob's done as well - all which should have been fixed before I got the car - but I was glad for the warranty.

A massive over generalisation but .... the dealers are possibly bumping up the costs by not fully fixing the cars before they go out - they wait until the punter comes back with it and then the BMW warranty pays - bumping up the warranty costs which is then passed on to us.

Doubt if BMW want a load of Z3 owners to take out the warranty now all the cars are getting long in the tooth - mines a 2001 and I get the feeling soon there will hardly be any cars that qualify to buy it anyway as they will have too many miles or have missed a service.

I did some sums and on balance ( 25,000 Miles) I took a chance it was cheaper to keep my cash and spend it on anything that goes wrong.

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Post by Robin » Mon 27 Nov, 2006 21:48

Main dealer servicing is extremely dear because they have a gauranteed conveyor belt of warranty work along with people concerned that if they don't have a main dealer stamp every service their car will be worth thousands less.
Apart from my vanos replacement, it seems that most of the work I had done on extended warranty could have been for far far less in an indie, assuming it even needed doing at all. I got the impression in the end my extended warranty was serving as much as a way to trap me into paying out for jobs in their £101 an hour coffee shop or for inspection time of my car to try & find faults often not even covered by the warranty.
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pingu
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Post by pingu » Sat 02 Dec, 2006 00:49

vanordinaire wrote:Problem with BMW's is that ...

...There were other bits and bob's done as well - all which should have been fixed before I got the car - but I was glad for the warranty.
100% agree. VANOS replaced. Thermostat replaced. Both in the first month. No problems since.
I did some sums and on balance ( 25,000 Miles) I took a chance it was cheaper to keep my cash and spend it on anything that goes wrong.
That's my plan too. Watch this space. How much to replace front suspension bushes? How much to replace VANOS? I need a lot to go wrong before I need to part with £700 (£600 + £100 excess).
Pingu

moneymouth77
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Post by moneymouth77 » Wed 20 May, 2009 10:04

Too true, it takes a lot for your car to go bust to the tune of £600 + excess. Although I think they have wised up to the fact that no one renews their coverage anymore... Stay tuned I say!

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Alfie
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Post by Alfie » Wed 20 May, 2009 19:48

I got a letter just last week from BMW INSURED WARRANTY offering.... "Your final opportunity to purchase BMW Insured Warranty"

At first, I thought it was for my 330i cabrio which expired in March, but when I read the small print it was for RED which expired in JANUARY 2007...!!!
Blimey, they must be SO desperate!

And quite right considering the disguting hike in price, slashing of coverage and excess charges they instigated around that time.
They were asking £1029 per year PLUS £100 excess PER ITEM CLAIMED. Yeah, right....

IMO 'insurance' covers you against accidents, and 'warranty' covers you against poor design and workmanship. These are two VERY different things and should never be confused. Why should I pay for insurance to cover their duff work?

I hope the rip-off BMW insured warranty dies the death and takes its creators with it. If BMW were to provide a decent coverage warranty at a sensible price, the customers would come flooding back.

You probably guessed that I won't be taking them up on their 'most generous' offer!

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pingu
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Post by pingu » Thu 21 May, 2009 19:34

Alfie,

It would be interesting to know if they really would accept you back into the BMW warranty scheme after two years.

I think it may have been an admin error.

They don't know how you have treated your car in those two years. If they are doing this to every ex-warranty owner they are just exposing themselves to more potentially toxic debt.
Pingu

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Alfie
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Post by Alfie » Thu 21 May, 2009 23:58

pingu wrote:They don't know how you have treated your car in those two years.
They have kind-of covered that. The letter states:

"Please note that this offer is only available if your BMW has been serviced in accordance with BMW's recommendations and has not been modified in any way."

So I guess they would perform a thorough inspection before accepting the car back into warranty.
pingu wrote:If they are doing this to every ex-warranty owner they are just exposing themselves to more potentially toxic debt.
Yeah, but with the 'BMW Insured Warranty' being SUCH a disaster, they've got to do something to try to save face!

I really don't think it's an admin error.

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testing..

Post by Touringman » Sun 16 Jan, 2011 22:55

img-problems...grrr
Norwegian who also likes to ride bikes, (Kawasaki ZZR1400 -08).
Sportchassie, sports leather seats, heated seats, el/hyd cab, el windows, el seats, Blaapunkt amp for sub. M44 1,9 engine. -98.

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