Unfriendly Z3 drivers

[johnz3]

I have had a great day in the 2.8 Z3 going to Crawley and Brighton and having a look at the London to Brighton Run. Hood down all the way.

Whilst it was a great drive I noticed the large amount of "sad" Z3 drivers who fail to acknowledge/fash or show any sign of recognition.

A few years ago i had a Lotus 7 lookalike and fellow kit cars owners, bikers etc would nearly all give a sign, mostly friendly I would add.

I have owned my Z3 since end Aug this year and simply have no real idea what it is all about.

Any ideas?

[Phoenix Nights]

I think you've answered your own question.

Lotus 7s etc are a rare sight and ownership automatically confers upon you a type of brotherhood.

Z3s were comparatively mass produced, and owning a Z3 does not necessarily mean that those driving them are enthusiasts. I'm sure anyone on this forum would have gladly flashed back though.

[Karma71]

I've got an answer for you m8t, they're just miserable.

Doesn't take much effort to flash or hoot your horn or even wave, if it is safe to do so.

It does make you think - should I bother? - Carry on regardless and wave like a loonatic, in the hope that one day someone will acknowledge back LOL.

Out of around 10 cars I have passed this summer only two have acknowledged.

I put it down to the fact that they won't acknowledge cos they know your Zed looks better and shineier than theirs LOL

Don't give up!!!

Karma71

[Robin]

I'm not saying Zedders are colour prejudiced but I only ever get waves from drivers of Estoril ///M's & there aren't many of those.

[burmagirl]

I try to wave/smile where possible. Only thing I'd say is that sometimes, at a glance, one BMW badge & grille is much like another, I don't always realise it was a Z3/4 until it's passing. And I always see more when I'm out in the Volvo, reluctant to wave then in case they just think I'm mad.

I'm an enthusiastic member, the forum has given me a lot of help & I like the fact that the Z3 engages people's feelings - it's out of production now & needs to be kept alive. It's fun to do things with it, even if only, in my case, doing a few chavvy bits such as chrome gills.

There is a high mileage (mile high?) Volvo owners' club. I think this will be the first time we've ever got near qualifying (probably need to be over 200k miles) as we've reached the 100k mark in our most recent one. By the time it gets to 200k, if it lasts that long, we really will be old farts, & if we are still allowed to drive then our cars will be the be all & end all of life!

Sorry, a bit OT there, lol!!

burmagirl

[Robert T]

Keep flashing and waving. I always try to wave unless I'm in the middle of a gear change, in which is just grin madly! Not everybody waves back, but enough do to make it worthwhile. I still love seeing other Z's on the road. Cheers R.

[Boysie]

Hi

As an owner of a MR//
I do get a flash or a wave from other MR// owners

But with normal Z's that has never happened


Ray

[burmagirl]

But how can they tell the difference from a distance? How can you? If I spend too much time looking at oncoming cars I tend to steer all over the road....

burmag

[mich]

But how can they tell the difference from a distance? How can you? If I spend too much time looking at oncoming cars I tend to steer all over the road....

burmag

I agree with you burmagirl I am the same I very rarely take my eyes off the road save to check the rear view mirror, my wife has to tell me when a Z is to be seen but then its too late to wave.

[CTB]

"I'm not saying Zedders are colour prejudiced but I only ever get waves from drivers of Estoril ///M's & there aren't many of those."

So not many people wave to you then Robin............... now isn't that a suprise note smiley face, comment meant as a joke, needs explanation for the ///M elite

[Paul.Stuhlfelder]

Out of around 10 cars I have passed this summer only two have acknowledged.

Theres loads round here... they just look miserable at you all the time!

[Boysie]

hi

To be honest they normally spot me
In most cases its traveling the
same way on a motorway
that i tend to see a MR// or MC//


To be honest i just look and get an acknowledgment

We must be friendlier people

ray

[BimBeema]

I've had varying reactions, sometimes a full wave and smile or acknowledgement, sometimes a complete blanking or miserable look! Tend to get more reaction on the motorway, maybe because you a have few seconds longer to drive side by side or tail each other and hence acknowledge each other whereas on London roads, you don't generally get that opportunity, cars just pass by and people need to concentrate for the next idiot who turns infront of them with out indicating or breaks for no reason, etc, etc, so maybe that's one possible reason!

[100GRA]

I think, as somebody said, it's because the Z3 is still relatively common (certainly in the UK). But as the cars get older and a bigger proportion of people driving them are doing so because they are enthusiasts (as opposed to those people who have just bought one as an everyday drive and will eventually trade it in). then I think the proportion of other Z3 drivers acknowledging your wave will increase, relatively (although there might not be so many around by then). I hope that makes sense.

One thing that has puzzled me over the seven and a half years that I've been driving my Z3 - and something that Mike Fishwick can probably answer. Mike, I drive in France (mainly Higher Normandy) three or four times a year, and I have always been struck at how few Z3s I see, compared with the UK. Am I imagining that, or do you agree? In Ireland, too, I have often driven over there for five days without seeing a single Z3 (in fact, very few sports cars at all).

[100GRA]

I forgot to add - I went to the MPH Show at Earls Court last Thursday which I thoroughly enjoyed. One classic dealer had a red Z1 on sale at £21,000-ish, but that was the only BMW on show in the entire place. Didn't the BMWCC have some kind of stand when when the show was at the NEC last week, before it transferred to Earls Court?

[Guest]

Yes - the Z3 is an uncommon sight in la belle France, making sightings quite unusual.

This means that the French regard it with either awe, or have a demonic urge to overtake in the ir old Clio diesel etc!

I would think the UK was the largest sales are in Europe for the Z3 - does anyone know the figures?

France is not a large market for sports cars anyway, and never will be until someone has the guts to put a good turbo diesel engine into one - really! You have to experience a modern diesel, and compare that with a large petrol engine - there is no real difference at sub-100 mph speeds, and the diesel will have better in-gear pick up.

We have an AMD-modified Golf TDI, with 167 bhp and 275 lb-ft of torque (more torque than an M Roaster!) which I would imagine has a good edge on my remapped 2.8 Zed - and does 50-60 mpg into the bargain. When you consider that diesel costs about £2.85 per gallon in France, if you get a decent exchange rate - not the usual tourist rip-off. (On my last trip to the UK I noticed a Travelex currency exchange machine giving 1 Euro to £1 , rather than the proper rate of about 1.44 Euro!)

[Robin]

Having driven two new diesel BMW's recently as courtesy cars I must say the torque is impressive between 1200 RPM & 4000 RPM. Above that they suddenly run out of breath.
The sound is hardly as pleasing to the ear as a petrol straight 6. Also Diesels smoke & are obnoxious. I regularly see new or nearly new diesels smoking not to mention older ones of course. I imagine your remapped one smokes even more Mike. There's a reason for a normally mapped diesel to back of the injectors above 4000RPM. That is that diesel fuel comprises long chain molecules that burn slower than the shorter molecules in petrol, so there isn't time for full combustion above that rev limit in a diesel.
It's not as if Diesel is great for global warming with the better MPG becuase it's a higher carbon fuel than petrol.
PM10's are a known health hazard to the pulmonary system (heart & lungs). Diesels should be banned, except in heavy goods vehicles where they are best suited.

[c_w]

I do like modern diesel engines but I think in a sports car a large rev range is particularly important as a diesel car is at its best just loping in a high gear which isn't always much fun.

[321bhp]

i drive the brand new ford galaxy as my work car,the new shape is great,engine great,diesel cars are so much better these days,


as for otherz drivers,i get around 2 in 10 wave or flash back,although m to m is uselly better response

[BenZ3-2.0]

Dont beleive just cos the zeds are common people dont wave. Just think all motobikes acknowledege each other reagrdless of manufacturer and they are everywhere.

Its more to do with people being miserable, and tbh if im out driving the zed it can always make me smile!! Maybe is people with out the straight 6 engine who are miserable

Think we should have a new rule and all zed drivers who use the forum have to wave!!!

I always wave/flash let out of junctions get very varied results but youy dont loose anything

[c_w]

Dont beleive just cos the zeds are common people dont wave. Just think all motobikes acknowledege each other reagrdless of manufacturer and they are everywhere.

Imagine everyone in a Mondeo waving at each other!

[Guest]

Apologies for being way off-topic - I'm not going to try to make converts, BUT:

(a) All engines run out of wind somewhere - in a modern diesel this is about 4000 rpm, which when considered in view of the higher gearing, equates to a petrol engine running to 6000 rpm. You have to consider the entire engine/transmission package. Our Golf runs to about 95 mph in fourth, with two more closely-spaced gears to go. It's the performance which counts, not the engine revving to its limit of mechanical integrety.

(b) Given decent maintenance, a modern diesel hardly smokes at all, and our remapped engine only puts out a bit of smoke if it has been loitering around town for a week or two - one quick thrash cures that. AMD are a very conservative outfit, and could get quite a bit more power if the customer does not mind smoke and associated MoT failure problems.

(c) If you could see the exhaust pollutants from a petrol engine as easily as you can with a badly-maintained diesel, you would ban them all tomorrow! Our Golf does not smell like an old Ford Transit, and if one did not know, the exhust smell would not be labelled as a diesel - it just has an odd 'burnt' type of odour.

(d) You have to have spent some time regularly driving a good electronically-controlled diesel and a similarly good petrol engine before you are in a position make relative criticisms - and you must also be objective. Most 'enthusiasts' are somewhat blinkered in this area, regardless of the wonderful in-gear grunt of the diesel, which will be up the road in top gear while the petrol people are sorting out their gearboxes! Really - it is that good.

(e) After nearly 90,000 miles I still can't find any really characterful noises from my six-cylinder engine - it's OK, but nothing to get excited about, whereas the TDI engine makes a nice solid engine note, overwritten with a bit of blower noise from time to time, and has a very pleasant exhaust note. In terms of noises, give me a flat 4 or a V8 any day!

No - the day of the petrol engine is over, as will be obvious when BMW put their excellent diesels into the Z4! They now put them into everyhting else, but it will probably take Audi to build a TDI vesrion of the Audi TT before BMW's dominant marketing men have the corporate courage to follow them.

PS- As Robin admits to 17 mpg around town, his M engine cannot be very efficient at low speeds, when it is producing low power outputs, which means that it must be putting a lot of badly-burnt fuel out of the exhaust system! It's probably more harmful than any diesel . . .

[Robin]

Mike
One diesel kicks out as much toxic soot at 30 cat equiped petrol cars. Diesels are disgusting. It's extremely difficult to get them not to smoke. Nine times out of ten when I can smell a stinking car in front I get closer to find it's got a 'TD' in the model number. Even when set up perfectly they still belch crap out when people floor it. They are obnoxious. They are major contibutor to dry asthmatic coughs that people get & the PM10's can also cause heart & lung problems.
It's alright for you. You don't have to breath in the exhaust from your diesel car. You are scrimping on motoring costs at the expense of the health of others. Since your main interest seems to be mpg rather than fun I'm not sure why you own a sports car.
I really think diesel drivers are an unfriendly lot in expecting those behind them to breath in the crap they put out.

[c_w]

Apologies for being way off-topic - I'm not going to try to make converts, BUT:

(a) All engines run out of wind somewhere - in a modern diesel this is about 4000 rpm, which when considered in view of the higher gearing, equates to a petrol engine running to 6000 rpm. You have to consider the entire engine/transmission package. Our Golf runs to about 95 mph in fourth, with two more closely-spaced gears to go. It's the performance which counts, not the engine revving to its limit of mechanical integrety.

I see what you're trying to say but in-gear speeds are irrelevant; nobody I know (and have seen noone use) a diesel engined car on track for trackdays as there is something a lot more satisfying and sporting in a engine that revs (ie petrol).

For a more relaxed effortless drive a good TD is better on the road for day to day driving.

I think you might be on your own saying a VAG PD engine (one of the more unrefined modern diesels of the times) sounds better than a petrol BMW straight six

[Guest]

If you could only see the noxious pollutants which a petrol car puts out, you would think again (maybe) but in the case of a diesel people can see a small amount of particulate matter and over-react, usually to suit their dogma. One never hears of these people complaining about the UK's worn-out diesel locomotives, whicih probably prodiuce far more pollution than all the diesl cars in existance!

When your petrol car is running on a cold marning, just think about the white steam etc which you can see, and which continues in an invisible form when the engine warms up. Diesels prduce a lot less Nox and CO than is the case with petrol engines, particularly when not fully warmed up. Don't judge well-maintained modern engines by the standards of old Ford Transits ald the like.

Remember - for an equivalent amount of power produced - say running around town - most cars produce about the same amount of power, but those with the worst fuel consumption are ejecting their wasted fuel as exhaust pollutants, including some very carcinogenic substances such as benzine. When their catalytic converters are cold - which is most of the time, on short runs - the situation is even worse.

I must say, though, that as someone who admits to getting 17 mpg while driving around town, it does not become Robin to call anyone selfish! Let's not let this get personal, shall we?

[whiteminks]

Come on boys,

Give each other a wave and a smile!

Whatever the technology the Z3 sounds ace and looks ace and makes us all feel gooooooooooooooooooooooooood


Cheers

P

[whiteminks]

Come on boys,

Give each other a wave and a smile!

Whatever the technology the Z3 sounds ace and looks ace and makes us all feel gooooooooooooooooooooooooood


Cheers

P

[whiteminks]

Come on boys,

Give each other a wave and a smile!

Whatever the technology the Z3 sounds ace and looks ace and makes us all feel gooooooooooooooooooooooooood


Cheers

P

[Robin]

If you could only see the noxious pollutants which a petrol car puts out, you would think again (maybe) but in the case of a diesel people can see a small amount of particulate matter and over-react, usually to suit their dogma. One never hears of these people complaining about the UK's worn-out diesel locomotives, whicih probably prodiuce far more pollution than all the diesl cars in existance!

Why insist it's dogma, its a fact.
'A small amount of particulate matter' !
Looks like a very large amount indeed to me from a large number of diesel vehicles & all day long, not just when they are warming up.
Whereas a warmed up petrol engine puts out little else but steam & CO2.
Incidently funnily enough I don't find myself driving behind diesel locos very often. I don't usually get within a mile of them. Not to mention the fact there are a 100 diesel vehicles for every loco, so the soot from locos is hardly a problem is it.

[CTB]

errr ......... I'll get me coat

[shabsbmw]

Hi Guys and Girls,

I have had my Zed for almost a year, and to date have never had a wave , there is a silver P reg Zed that i sometimes see on the A23 driving towards Redhill, and i know it's a lady, she never ever waves,and doesn't even acknowledge my Zed, my one is Topaz Blue and number plate starts S3, so if you are on here, please give me a smile at least
There is also another Topaz blue Zed in the car park where i work and i just saw the driver of it after work yesterday, as he was driving out the car park.
So if your the owner of the Topaz Blue Zed, with a number plate that starts NIB, and work opposite Gatwick,let me know

I love my Zed, she is on a 02 plate,but now a private plate, i enjoy every minute of it and always look at her out the window,pure beauty

[Robin]

If someone has a very similiar & rare car I might smile or nod or flash my lights at them. An ///MR perhaps, but I feel a bit of a wally waving at every Zed3. I think most people feel the same way, which is why they tend not to wave. It's nothing personal.

[spokey]

If someone has a very similiar & rare car I might smile or nod or flash my lights at them. An ///MR perhaps, but I feel a bit of a wally waving at every Zed3. I think most people feel the same way, which is why they tend not to wave. It's nothing personal.

Who is Wally, and why are you feeling him?

[Robin]

[muppet]

[/quote]

Imagine everyone in a Mondeo waving at each other! [/quote]

the 3 series BMW outsells the Mondeo in Britain, common as muck you know:shock:

I waved at a zed3 this morning with the only reply being a stange look from the woman driving it. A bit of a shame as I know the guy who owns/used to own it
I have only had a couple of waves from zed 3's since February, and nothing at all from zed 4's. A guy in a three series convertible did flick a cigarette at me last week

[Charles_42]

Swap your Z3 for a Z1 : the best guarantee for cheerfully smiling ladies (if not more!) and jealous male adults. Success assured!

[matchy]

When I had an open top triumph , most other triumph owners were very friendly and would wave , however , very few Z owners do so , especially the ladies .. never mind , more fool them ! Cheers , Matchy . ( Mind you , I am an ugly Beggar! )

[exdos]

Many people in Z3s which are non MRs don't even recognise the family link with a MC.

[mich]

Yeh, its no fun following a diesel belching out black smoke, when you have the top down, worse still if the truck is a stock truck, pooo.
But just as bad behind a petrol vehicle that is running too rich

[Robert T]

I get quite a few waves back from ladies. Trouble is that some people concentrate so furiously on the road (or their phone or their makeup) that they wouldn't notice a Challenger tank rumbling past. The raked-back windscreen of the Z's don't help for seeing the occupant(s) either. So sometimes you can't tell if someone waves back or not. Best way of getting a wave is to have the roof and windows down and stick your arm out the side. Have got some big grins from people doing that!

Can tell a Z coming from miles off - but I'm useless at identifying whether its an ///M from the front.

But please do keep waving. Even if only 1 in 10 waves back - it's worth it for the one that does. And remember that it may just be a forum member! Cheer R.

[Aqua2.8]

Back to this diesel debate. I don't understand this phrase, "in-gear" performance of diesel engines.

In my limited experience of petrol and diesel engined cars, all of them with manual transmission, I've never managed any significant speed when they're "out of gear" - except maybe the one time it rolled backwards.

So help me - what are you talking about?

Aqua

[CTB]

I agree with you Aqua 2.8

Speed is relative to how far you press the accelerator and keep off the brakes and what gear your in, all this talk of chipping this chipping that, diesel / petrol bhp etc etc et al, at the end of the day a Z3 is just a bl00dy car, a bl00dy beautiful car, full of character, style and Zest, be it a 1.9 a 2.8 an ///M or whatever engine size it may be, whatever level of trim and spec we all are rightfully proud of our cars, there heritage and design, and to not acknowledge a Zed owner that waves / flashes just goes to prove either the driver is asleep, is not proud of the car he/she drives, or is not aware of the camaraderie between one make motorists.

At the end of the day they either wave / flash back or they dont, whose loss is it if they dont, at least you have made an attempt to be sociable

End of story

[Guest]

Aqua - what is meant by 'In-Gear' acceleration is the time taken to accelerate over a certain speed range in a particular gear. For example, a 2.8 Zed will cover 50-70 mph in fifth gear takes 8.3 seconds, which is pretty good. For comparison, the Porsche Boxter 2.5 of the period took 12.8 seconds, making the Z3 a much nicer car to drive, with plenty of get up and go, even in fifth gear. ('Autocar' magazine figures)

At the risk of annoying Robin (again!) our modified Golf TDI will do the same in about 6.5 seconds in fifth (28 mph/1000 rpm) or about 8 seconds in sixth (32.5 mph/1000 rpm).

Lots of magazines and TV shows like to quote 0-60 mph times, but these are only relavent if you are driving to peak rpm, whereas in everyday life an engine with instant grunt on tap will be better to drive than one which has to be thrashed to achieve the same performance. Agian (sorry yet Robin!) the engine with instant grunt (ie lots of torque spread over the rev range) will also have better fuel consumption, which for some of us is (sorry again Robin!) just as important as performance.

While I appreciate that some people get a kick out of running their engines to high rpm whenever they can, an engine which does not have to be driven hard to provide equivalent performance provides something for everyone, in any mood.

[cngizbleevng]

At the end of the day they either wave / flash back or they dont, whose loss is it if they dont, at least you have made an attempt to be sociable

End of story

exactly. I wave or give the "peace sign" to every z3 I pass. I'd say about a third of them acknowledge me in return. Keep in mind the other driver needs a certain amount of reaction time to respond, and you may have alot of glare on your windshield so you aren't seen anyway.

That said, I don't recall ever seeing another Z driver initiating the wave, it's always me. But you've lost nothing in giving a wave.

[Guest]

Even when meeting a UK-registered Z3 in darkest France I have never had a return - maybe some drivers are more concerend with looking 'cool' than being friendly. French Zed drivers, on the other hand, almost jump out and kiss you . . .

[c_w]

Even when meeting a UK-registered Z3 in darkest France I have never had a return - maybe some drivers are more concerend with looking 'cool' than being friendly. French Zed drivers, on the other hand, almost jump out and kiss you . . .

Is that after following you 2" from your bumper at 90 on the autoroute?

[Chrislong]

When I was into rebuilding and modifying Mini's, it was rare for one not to respond with another wave or flash. Although BMW owners rarely do wave/flash at classic Mini's.

Ive attempted a few waves at passing Z3 owners, no responce to any yet, but I won't give up. Atleast im rememberring to wave at Z3's as doing it to Mini's just seems wrong now.

[calbens]

I gave up flashing or waving at other zeds I see because to date I have never had a response, apart from on the Gaydon Cruise lol

Now if I pass or get passed by a Zed I always look with a big grin to see if there is any reaction from them, but guess what......nothing

I did get a sort of reaction a few months back from a silver 2.8 zed around Jct 26 on the M6. Not quite sure if it was friendly though I went past him and then suddenly saw him steaming up behind me so I moved over to let him overtake but instead he squeezed in behing me, hovered for a while and then went past and pulled infront. I think he either wanted to race or was eyeing my car up then by pulling infront of me was letting me see that he had a bigger one (men and sizes lol). But in all of that I never once saw a grin, maybe he was when he got past me

[Guest]

I have never had a French Z3 attached tothe rear end - it's usually small peugot vans in bult-up areas, but these are blown into the weeds on exit fmor the town.

Le tailgating id now a tres seriouse offence, witha 130 Euro fine, which seems to have reduced the incidence of this pastime. Belieive me - it's a lot more relaxing to drive in France than the UK!

[Phoenix Nights]

Can tell a Z coming from miles off - but I'm useless at identifying whether its an ///M from the front.

Hi Robert - a quick way of identifying ///Ms from the front is the different front air dam, and perhaps above all, that they don't have front fog lights. Where the Z3's fogs are, the ///M has some sort of air intake, probably for cooling the engine or something.