Z3 prices taking a kicking

dalemiller · Post by **dalemiller** » Fri 01 Aug, 2008 16:37

Anyone else noticed the drop in prices of the Z3 at present? Obviously petrol & tax isn't helping, but seems our cars are seeing fairly significant drops

Still, who cares - even more reason to keep them mint & drive them hard, hard, hard!

Dav · Post by **Dav** » Fri 01 Aug, 2008 16:44

It's not just Z3s it's all cars. Take a look on Pistonheads at the Z4s!
If you want a car it really is a buyers market. Problem is selling your own car to finance it, a bit like the house market.

///M_aniac · Post by **///M_aniac** » Fri 01 Aug, 2008 22:47

Dav wrote: Problem is selling your own car

Tell me about it. I still have my green 2.0 sitting in the drive way. No calls. Such a waste.

phb10186 · Post by **phb10186** » Sun 03 Aug, 2008 10:42

Actually I think roadster values are holding up better than anything else at the moment.... (as far as conventional vehicles go, or what the government term 'Gas Guzzlers').

Just saw an 01 LS400 go at auction for £5K with 60,000 on the clock - thats real depreciation.

From a market point of view I would say that there is no point selling anything at the moment, there is zero confidence out there, and its only going to get worse for the next couple of years.... This has been blown up out of proportion by the fuel price crisis we have just had. I term it crisis, but its actually just a black-mailing by OPEC and our Government.

I would have said that the next possible selling time that would be at all worth while is the beginning of next summer.

I feel sorry for anyone with a large amount of outstanding finance out there!

I have recently changed jobs, and my fuel bills have dropped from £250 a month to a little over £2.50 a week - with thanks to my new Honda Innova 125 motorbike!

If there is any sense out there it would be to keep the cars we have and invest in something like a 125 mororbike that does 150mpg (and are all 4 stroke now and mine even has fuel injection), and just use the car less. For any traveling within the M25 (or other similar suburbanised area), you can beat anyone in a car as long as its not wet, and you don't get knocked off!

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sun 03 Aug, 2008 11:18

Would have to agree, its definitely a second hand buyers market at present but unfortunately not a sellers. I would be hanging onto my car at present and then see if the market picks up in 6 months. Its not just certain makes I think all car makes are suffering at present.

I also own a Corsa VXR and Vauxhall are bring out a special edition. It amuses me that some owners on the VXR forum are trading in their 6 month old VXR's for one of these special editions and taking massive depreciation at the dealers, its crazy doing this!!

phb10186 · Post by **phb10186** » Sun 03 Aug, 2008 11:29

For every bargain out there, someone else has to get ripped off!

Thanks to people like you have just described, I keep getting a bargain!!!

badboyblue · Post by **badboyblue** » Sun 03 Aug, 2008 12:04

Are 2nd hand car prices not just relative? you get less for your 8 year old Z3 and pay less for the 4 year old Z4 to replace it??
Probably very similar "cost to change"??

phb10186 · Post by **phb10186** » Sun 03 Aug, 2008 12:17

badboyblue wrote:Are 2nd hand car prices not just relative? you get less for your 8 year old Z3 and pay less for the 4 year old Z4 to replace it??
Probably very similar "cost to change"??

Exactly, the market reflects everything accross the board GENERALLY SPEAKING.

Though the servicing and labour costs on an old Z3 and new Z4 are about the same, the Z3 will also probably use more fuel - all these things hit older models just a bit more.

But, on the flip side, you get to a point where the Z3 looks like good value based on these aspects that lead to reduced prices, so more people start to buy again, so the Z3 looks more appealing!

If you have ever studdied economics it's simple supply and demand equilibrium.

Without being patronising at all to anyone, if you can understand this simple concept, you should always spend your money in the right place:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... C%26sa%3DN

In other words, don't buy a brand new Citroen!

icarus · Post by **icarus** » Sun 03 Aug, 2008 15:58

I found being offered 3K for my Z3 very liberating. It made me re-examine what I have got. The best drive ever, the best condition ever and the best style ever.

I test drove every thing within my budget twice over and came to a Z3 late in the process and was immediately smitten

It has one piece of curbing on one wheel but that’s all and over the last two years I have corrected all the issues i was aware of when I bought it.

It has enough rarity and glamour to turn heads of all ages.

I was looking at a fully loaded bmw john cooper works mini, a very nice car.

The exterior styling of the john cooper mini is very pleasing on the eye but my son and I were having a cup tea at a local NT property and the Z3 was park where I could see it while we drunk our tea and ate a rather nice ginger cake a bmw mini parked next to it. There was no contest although the mini looked cheeky and bright it lacked the confidence and presence of the Z3

I took the mini for a test drive and found the extra power skittish on its 18” run fats the longer wheel base of the Z3 combines assurance with power.

The JC mini had one feature that was truly impressive blue tooth, sat nav and an ipod interface in the central speed dial.

Commercially it doesn’t matter how good your car is, in reality you are selling and buying credit.

I consider myself lucky to own such a car with the resources and patience to maintain it properly and with just 33K on the clock, “touch wood” I hope to enjoy at least another two years enjoyable and trouble free motoring.

It is undoubtedly in better condition than I am.

321bhp · Post by **321bhp** » Mon 04 Aug, 2008 02:12

just keep your z,as with most sports cars in time they will become valuable take the cars below all worth around 3 or 4 times what they cost new with some being 20 times what they were new,i mean take a triumph tr6 now a niceone is around 10k think they were around 5k or less new,there pretty much the same as a z3 open top nice looking sporty,keep ya z3 and what the £££££££ go up

1.e-type jag
2ford escort mk1
3.triumph dolamite sprint
4.ford capri brooklands 280
5.ford anglia
6.jenson interceptor
7.ford capri 3.0 gxl
8 most 70,s fords

you could make a huge list,the zm and coupe will be worth loads of dosh 10 years time
shame people dont see that or get fed up and want that ,i must upgrade car

i had a right minter mk3 cortina 2.0 gt,and i brought that for £400 a right minter now as around £3000 to £4000

namatjira · Post by **namatjira** » Mon 04 Aug, 2008 07:17

Another factor affecting used car prices and especially the prices of those models of car that could be deemed non-essential second or third vehicles, and that is the current mortgage squeeze. This has nothing to do with oil prices or that we have the most expensive fuel in the world, just that many families are either struggling or are afraid of struggling if the mortgage rates and other housing costs continue to threaten. So they decide to cut back and the entertaining cars like the Zed are often first to go. Oversupply then leads to lower achievable prices.

On the bright side, if you have some disposable and are looking for a younger, updated vehicle, now might be the time to get it.

caboosemoose · Post by **caboosemoose** » Mon 04 Aug, 2008 23:27

321bhp wrote:the zm and coupe will be worth loads of dosh 10 years time

With the greatest of respect, it will take a lot longer than ten years for any Z3
to be worth "loads of dosh" if it ever happens, which frankly I doubt.

If return on investment is you concern, any Z3 would be pretty disastrous. As
indeed is your example of the TR6. You seem to be ignoring not only the
investment potential lost, but even inflation. Roughly speaking, £5,000 in
1970 is equivalent to £50,000 today. Even just stuck in the bank over the
same period you'd be looking at a lot more than that, which makes the
current £10,000 valuation look pretty pitiful.

I'd say focus on the enjoyment your car gives you because as an investment, it's going to suck.

greg_ch · Post by **greg_ch** » Mon 04 Aug, 2008 23:45

BMW AG recently doubled - from March 08 - to EUR 700 mio. - June 08 - it's operating lease provision.

Worldwide, residual values have fallen much faster than expected leaving a rather large financial hole.

BMW have warned, it may yet rise again.

321bhp · Post by **321bhp** » Tue 05 Aug, 2008 01:38

caboosemoose wrote:
321bhp wrote:the zm and coupe will be worth loads of dosh 10 years time
With the greatest of respect, it will take a lot longer than ten years for any Z3
to be worth "loads of dosh" if it ever happens, which frankly I doubt.

If return on investment is you concern, any Z3 would be pretty disastrous. As
indeed is your example of the TR6. You seem to be ignoring not only the
investment potential lost, but even inflation. Roughly speaking, £5,000 in
1970 is equivalent to £50,000 today. Even just stuck in the bank over the
same period you'd be looking at a lot more than that, which makes the
current £10,000 valuation look pretty pitiful.

I'd say focus on the enjoyment your car gives you because as an investment, it's going to suck.

no im not looking at my car as an investment at all,just that rather than upgrade to say a newer z4m and loose another load of dosh id rather stay with what ive got already,hand on heart if i won a few million on lottery id still keep my zm,seems a lot of people buy a z than have it a few months then get rid of it,the shape of the zm is to me far better than lots of cars i could mention that cost around £20,000 and upwards,how the car looks and drives and is keeped means more to me than that 2008 plate stuck on the front,i coudnt care less if the z drops to low low prices im keeping mine,come back to me in another 10 years when my m is 20 years old,then it will be a classic and prices should be pretty high then

back to my example with the triumph tr6 after some researching in 1972 a brand new tr6 was around £1,500 so a minter now could reach £15,000 so thats a 1000% increase,so if i wait untill my m is 36 years old ummmm that would be 2034 it will most proberly be in the scrap yard

100GRA · Post by **100GRA** » Tue 05 Aug, 2008 11:51

321bhp wrote:just keep your z,as with most sports cars in time they will become valuable take the cars below all worth around 3 or 4 times what they cost new with some being 20 times what they were new,i mean take a triumph tr6 now a niceone is around 10k think they were around 5k or less new,there pretty much the same as a z3 open top nice looking sporty,keep ya z3 and what the £££££££ go up

1.e-type jag
2ford escort mk1
3.triumph dolamite sprint
4.ford capri brooklands 280
5.ford anglia
6.jenson interceptor
7.ford capri 3.0 gxl
8 most 70,s fords

Much as I admired the Dolomite Sprint (I owned one, see attached image courtesy Car Design Sketches), I think any appreciation in value over the years is minimal, and not at all in real terms. I paid £3,052.33 OTR for mine in July 1975 (my first car to be graced with the number 100 GRA), which at today's money is the equivalent of nearly £19,000. However, I doubt if an example today, even in show condition, would command more than about £5,000.

Going off at a slight tangent, it was the demise of the Dolomite Sprint which led me to own my first BMW. When they stopped making the Dolly, there was really nothing on the British market to take its place, and in terms of size and performance the nearest I could get was a BMW 320, of which I went on to own six before moving on to my Zed. I paid £7,019.85 OTR for my first 320 in March 1979, which in today's money is £28,500.

On the same tack, I paid £31,442.23 OTR for my Z3 2.8 in April 1999, which in today's money is £41,500. So I think I'm definitely in negative equity there! Still, hopefully my grandson born two weeks ago might get some enjoyment out of it.

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Tue 05 Aug, 2008 12:17

That is one thing, new cars are relatively cheaper to buy now. Originaly the Z3M Coupes were £44k(!), ironically the later S54 was reduced down to £38k or something, but a Z4M is around the same price new 10 years later.

SpunkyM · Post by **SpunkyM** » Tue 05 Aug, 2008 15:25

True. They were very expensive indeed at £44K in 1998 weren't they. What has inflation been on that over 10 years? - must be something like £60K in todays money.

Good cars but they ain't £60K good.

100GRA · Post by **100GRA** » Tue 05 Aug, 2008 15:42

£44K in 1998 is the equivalent of £58.4K today.

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Tue 05 Aug, 2008 19:39

All car prices are taking a kicking. BMW used to have very good residuals of between 50% to 70% value in 3 years.

Recently, this has become 3 minutes

.

Buy a Z4M for £44K in the morning and it is worth only £30K (as a trade-in) in the afternoon. Now, that's what I call depreciation.

At the end of the day, if you can afford to keep driving it, keep driving it.

321bhp · Post by **321bhp** » Wed 06 Aug, 2008 01:38

pingu said,At the end of the day, if you can afford to keep driving it, keep driving it.

spot on

phb10186 · Post by **phb10186** » Sat 09 Aug, 2008 19:29

My old E24 635 was £26,000 in 1985, and you didn't get a penny off list, I saw the original sales invoice.

At that time my parents bought a 3 bed flat in Bournemouth for £30,000

It's not fair to compare as cars have come down and property gone up, but if I did, it makes the 635 about twice as expensice as a Bentley Continental.

... And now its sitting in my drive rusting, and worth about the same as 300 gallons of petrol!!!

So, if you like the Bentley Continental..... I've got just the plan....

Dav · Post by **Dav** » Tue 12 Aug, 2008 18:37

This is proof:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1998-Black-BMW-Z3 ... .m14.l1318

AntMan · Post by **AntMan** » Tue 12 Aug, 2008 19:29

No thats cheap

Apolyon · Post by **Apolyon** » Wed 13 Aug, 2008 11:01

Must be something wrong with it! That cant be that price for a black 2.8

I am tempted by that just for the hell of it.

321bhp · Post by **321bhp** » Thu 14 Aug, 2008 01:24

i think a combination of the dreaded credit crunch plus not much nice weather to get your hood down are keeping prices very low,im sure they will increase by next year as will house prices

a friend recently sold his house for 100,000 less than the starting price

this credit crunch is really kicking in now down south,pubs are empty shops are empty,i brought a new hd tv from my local sony store this week,it was a saturday 1pm time i was the only person in the shop

plus whilst i was in there around 30 mins no one came in,the shop assistant said its bad times for everyone,so i dont just think z prices are down everything is down

Apolyon · Post by **Apolyon** » Thu 14 Aug, 2008 07:44

If it was a manual I might have had that just to keep it stored somewhere for those 5 days a year when you can drop the top and not feel like your ears are going to fall off.

mattdedasc · Post by **mattdedasc** » Mon 18 Aug, 2008 10:28

321bhp wrote:i think a combination of the dreaded credit crunch plus not much nice weather to get your hood down are keeping prices very low,im sure they will increase by next year as will house prices

a friend recently sold his house for 100,000 less than the starting price

this credit crunch is really kicking in now down south,pubs are empty shops are empty,i brought a new hd tv from my local sony store this week,it was a saturday 1pm time i was the only person in the shop plus whilst i was in there around 30 mins no one came in,the shop assistant said its bad times for everyone,so i dont just think z prices are down everything is down

I agree with the "everything is down" statement. I see it as a positive. Not only z3s are falling in price, all used cars are, possibly by more, which means your trade-up would be cheaper even if your Z has lost value.

On the subject of houses, I'd disagree. We haven't seen anything yet. I expect house prices to halve from the peak in Nov 2007 through 2012.

X958 · Post by **X958** » Thu 21 Aug, 2008 15:15

I've tried a couple of times recently to sell my 3.0 on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0255258571

It is in great condition, but we have a nice new V50 diesel which is much cheaper to run for the daily commute, and so gets much more use these days. My Z3 is just sitting under a car cover slowly depleting its battery

The best offers I "officially" received were around ?4.5k.

To think that it would have cost about ?30k new in 2001!

I'd rather keep the car and have a few sunny drives per year (optimism!) than give it away for so little.
________
Maine Marijuana Dispensaries

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Thu 21 Aug, 2008 15:37

X958 wrote:I've tried a couple of times recently to sell my 3.0 on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0255258571

It is in great condition, but we have a nice new V50 diesel which is much cheaper to run for the daily commute, and so gets much more use these days. My Z3 is just sitting under a car cover slowly depleting its battery

The best offers I "officially" received were around £4.5k.

To think that it would have cost about £30k new in 2001!

I'd rather keep the car and have a few sunny drives per year (optimism!) than give it away for so little.

Next time you advertise, I'd advise you emphasise that your car will not be subject to the new tax rates. All that fun for less than £200 per year - you lucky bugger.

SpunkyM · Post by **SpunkyM** » Thu 21 Aug, 2008 15:44

Is it just me or have people completely distorted this tax issue out of all proportion when it comes to second hand values? I mean on a £15K car is £200 a year really that big a deal. As sellers, why don't people say - OK, I'll tell you what I'll do, I'll knock £600 off the asking price and that will get you 3 years of what the extra tax will cost. Most likely they'll be ready for changing car again by then anyway.

I think dealers are just using it as an excuse to rip people off with 2nd hand and trade in values.

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Thu 21 Aug, 2008 18:56

SpunkyM wrote:Is it just me or have people completely distorted this tax issue out of all proportion when it comes to second hand values? I mean on a £15K car is £200 a year really that big a deal. As sellers, why don't people say - OK, I'll tell you what I'll do, I'll knock £600 off the asking price and that will get you 3 years of what the extra tax will cost. Most likely they'll be ready for changing car again by then anyway.

I think dealers are just using it as an excuse to rip people off with 2nd hand and trade in values.

I agree that it's out of proportion, but the selling price on the forecourt has been affected (maybe not the advertised price, but the selling price).

My mate had 6 cars drop in value by £2000 each on Glass' in one month. And these were cars valued at around the £10,000 range. So in order to shift them he's had to sell at a loss. He's not the only one that this has happened to.

The RyanAir guy said recently that those who can survive the crunch will be quids-in, as there will be much less competition. He's not wrong.

It's all about seeing opportunities where others see threats (SWOT). I see it as an opportunity to get a cheap motor, or to trade-up for less.

Geoff H · Post by **Geoff H** » Thu 21 Aug, 2008 21:46

pingu wrote: My mate had 6 cars drop in value by £2000 each on Glass' in one month. And these were cars valued at around the £10,000 range. So in order to shift them he's had to sell at a loss. He's not the only one that this has happened to.

This is quite true, I have a number of friends who own garages, one of them told me last week that most of the cars in another of our friends garage were now in negative equity

Dav · Post by **Dav** » Sat 30 Aug, 2008 09:59

A Z4 on Pistonheads for 9k

It's going to get worse.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/682806.htm

Bally · Post by **Bally** » Sat 30 Aug, 2008 12:14

Thats Big Motoring World, they seem to be a BMW car supermarket, up & till a month ago they never seem to have many Zeds. Now they are must be picking them up cheap & banging them out with all the other stock.

phb10186 · Post by **phb10186** » Sat 30 Aug, 2008 15:56

I forsee a lot of negative equity!

A roadster with a big engine is one of the most selfish cars you can buy, hence when the going gets bad, its the easiest substitutible luxury good.

It doesn't take Geroge Soros to calculate that if you have less money and fuel costs are up, then an aeging car with 2 seats, high running costs and a fabric roof in a country where it rains all the time isn't exactly flavour of the month - especially when the summer has been terrible, and the winter is just about to kick in... with yes, higher bills and lots of inflation.

On the flip side, solid roadsters should always fetch a few grand, unlike almost everything else (except Nisan Figaros).

AND, when people stop buying new, then they have to buy used, and so demand might alter in our favour. We are in a transitional phase at the moment, and used stock is currently devaluing until demand and supply equalise and stabilise: then you will see values pick up again, but not for some time yet... best to give it 18 months for the moment!

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Sat 30 Aug, 2008 17:09

http://www.bigmotoringworld.co.uk/view.asp?ID=21656

£22,000 for a 20,000mile 06 Z4M

That's £10,000 per year in depreciation alone - eek!!

phb10186 · Post by **phb10186** » Sat 30 Aug, 2008 17:54

Thats a good deal, do you think it will be £12K next year???

Bally · Post by **Bally** » Sun 31 Aug, 2008 19:29

Just spotted this nice little Z3 from the dealer in York that I got my car from in Jan. The price is painfull

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/ca ... 5317702628

Justin Time · Post by **Justin Time** » Sun 31 Aug, 2008 19:36

That actually made my jaw drop, Bally!

Dav · Post by **Dav** » Sun 31 Aug, 2008 19:37

Bally wrote:Just spotted this nice little Z3 from the dealer in York that I got my car from in Jan. The price is painfull

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/ca ... 5317702628

That is a nice looking car for the money.
I dare say you would get it for a bit less without a trade in.

Bally · Post by **Bally** » Sun 31 Aug, 2008 19:38

It wouldnt be too bad if it looked like a rubbish car but appart from missing sports seats it ticks all the boxes......

Dav · Post by **Dav** » Sun 31 Aug, 2008 19:47

Did the 2.2 come with an electric roof or was it optional?

Bally · Post by **Bally** » Sun 31 Aug, 2008 20:44

Dav

I dont care about the roof.....thats over a grand less than i paid for my 1999 2.0 with 49K on the clock, all beit with electric roof, chrome and full M sports interior!!!

Its a good dealer so it will probably be tidy as well.

Bally

Dav · Post by **Dav** » Sun 31 Aug, 2008 20:56

You got to look on the bright side. Next year your road tax will be £185 and whoever buys that has to pay £310.
Anyway does it have an electric roof as standard?

Geoff H · Post by **Geoff H** » Sun 31 Aug, 2008 23:46

Bally wrote:Dav

I dont care about the roof.....thats over a grand less than i paid for my 1999 2.0 with 49K on the clock, all beit with electric roof, chrome and full M sports interior!!!
Bally

Just imagine what your going to get for it when you sell it .... prices won't be going back up

Zed Carer · Post by **Zed Carer** » Tue 16 Sep, 2008 21:15

Just seen this on PH

LINK

Surely either the mileage, or the price is wrong? Is the world going mad?

If not I need to arrange to visit brother-in-law in Norfolk at the weekend!

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Tue 16 Sep, 2008 21:22

Must be a typo or at this rate I'm starting a Z3 collection

phb10186 · Post by **phb10186** » Tue 16 Sep, 2008 23:37

Zed Carer wrote:Just seen this on PH

LINK

Surely either the mileage, or the price is wrong? Is the world going mad?

If not I need to arrange to visit brother-in-law in Norfolk at the weekend!

I'll split it with you and we can share the proceeds..... I think he's taking the pistonheads with that (probably a CAT D)!

phb10186 · Post by **phb10186** » Tue 16 Sep, 2008 23:37

Zed Carer wrote:Just seen this on PH

LINK

Surely either the mileage, or the price is wrong? Is the world going mad?

If not I need to arrange to visit brother-in-law in Norfolk at the weekend!

I'll split it with you and we can share the proceeds..... I think he's taking the pistonheads with that (probably a CAT D)!

Bally · Post by **Bally** » Wed 17 Sep, 2008 06:28

Something adrift with that one, the link that i put in for the 2.2 sold straight away, no suprise there!!

zroadster.net

Z3 prices taking a kicking

Z3 prices taking a kicking

Z3 Ouch

Re: Z3 Ouch