3.0L vs 3.2M

smartypants · Post by **smartypants** » Thu 30 Apr, 2009 09:55

c_w wrote:Yes I agree! BMW are probably making the best diesel car engines at the moment.

A chipped 335d of V10 M5? What's your budget

Both please!

astropa · Post by **astropa** » Sat 02 May, 2009 19:12

I’ve never driven a Z3M, but I have a relative who owns a Z4M and I’ve driven that, and although its an unquestionably fast car, for the money he paid for it (over £25K), its not that much quicker than my £7k 3.0 Z3. its prob half a second quicker to 60. When he came round my place last summer and I took him for a spin in the Z3, let him have a drive and then told him how much I paid I could see him comparing and contrasting with what his Z4M set him back.

Its all to do with smiles per £. Anyone who has a spare £100k can be a fantastic car from Porsche, Ferrari or Aston; but the whole idea of a great car is buying something that you don’t need to re-mortgage the house to own, that you look forward to driving and on a sunny Sunday afternoon its the first thing you think of doing.

Best car I have ever owned. An R reg. 1.0 Red VW Polo, cost me nothing to buy, run or insure, was surprisingly nice to drive and had a very high build quality for a small cheap car, never let me down, needed nothing spending on it, and after two years of ownership I sold it for more than I bought it for. Beat that.

pangster · Post by **pangster** » Sat 02 May, 2009 19:15

astropa wrote:I’ve never driven a Z3M, but I have a relative who owns a Z4M and I’ve driven that, and although its an unquestionably fast car, for the money he paid for it (over £25K), its not that much quicker than my £7k 3.0 Z3. its prob half a second quicker to 60. When he came round my place last summer and I took him for a spin in the Z3, let him have a drive and then told him how much I paid I could see him comparing and contrasting with what his Z4M set him back.

Its all to do with smiles per £. Anyone who has a spare £100k can be a fantastic car from Porsche, Ferrari or Aston; but the whole idea of a great car is buying something that you don’t need to re-mortgage the house to own, that you look forward to driving and on a sunny Sunday afternoon its the first thing you think of doing.

Best car I have ever owned. An R reg. 1.0 Red VW Polo, cost me nothing to buy, run or insure, was surprisingly nice to drive and had a very high build quality for a small cheap car, never let me down, needed nothing spending on it, and after two years of ownership I sold it for more than I bought it for. Beat that.

You had me.... until the last paragraph!! LOL!!! (jk BTW!

)

In all seriousness, I understand where you're coming from and agree with you!

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Sun 03 May, 2009 13:58

Of course a 3.0 Z3 is going to cost a fraction of a much newer, higher spec model Z4(M). I understand the smiles per mile argument but that is an different debate - it sure wouldn't be any BMW that's for sure!!

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Sun 03 May, 2009 17:23

Just ask yourself the question "When I drive with my foot flat to the floor, is it fast enough?"

If you don't drive "foot flat", then a power upgrade is probably not required.

If the the answer is "No", then go for the upgrade.

skeete · Post by **skeete** » Mon 06 Jul, 2009 08:48

A 3.0 is about 5-7 grand cheaper than a similar ///M at the moment. You already have a "known" quantity with your car, why not buy a supercharger which you can take off when you sell and retain as much money as possible?

I have never driven an ///M, But I do own a 3.0, and it does have soft dampers, does lack a little grunt in low revs, but I have NEVER managed to go flat out other than on a motorway. Its just too dangerous.

So IM(value for money)O your better off keeping your 3.0.

As I have said on another post, what the Z lacks is explosiveness, and a supercharger might give that tingle of excitement I think you are missing. It would easily challenge an ///M on a motorway if it has 300bhp, and this is the only place you can realistically use the power if you are not on a track.

skeete

Kolgan · Post by **Kolgan** » Mon 06 Jul, 2009 09:43

If BMW have buy a range of car with engine it isn't for fun ... When i read some stuff like M version didn't worth the money etc ... I found that funny.

The only thing is this car is good (i didn't that the 3L isnt good) but you get the ultimate Z3 in my opinion (with the running cost i admit).

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Mon 06 Jul, 2009 10:00

What's so funny about the M not being worth the money?
The performance isn't that much above the top of the range 'normal' model - used may be a different option, but, it's certainly the case when they are new.
Prime example of this is the stated power and performance of the 135i and 335i compared to the M3 - the bhp of the engine is listed at 306, while any dyno I've seen shows a minimum of 325 (co-incidently the output of the 740 with the same engine...) and almost every road test have exceeded BMW's figures by a significant amount. In the real world, neither the 335i or 335d are that much slower than the M3, while costing much less.

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Mon 06 Jul, 2009 14:14

Pheonix, I agree with what you say, these days the real world performance is not that much different and there are lots of examples of cars being "detuned" to justify the price differential (porche do it with the cayman when in fact its setup chasis can out perform a 911). This is further evident with the vast improvement in diesel engines, in the real world my diesel 5 series feels as fast as my z3m. But driven hard on the bendy stuff and you are reminded what an ///M is all about compared to an mSport (I'v driven 335i mSports). There is a general consensous that the 550i is a better overall car than the M5 but at the end of the day I would (perhaps stupidly) take the M5 any day over the 550i. The boundaries have blurred over the years especially with BMW using the mSport brand so effectively largely making the ///M redundant (ie new Z4 no plans for ///M variant given performance of the 3 litre twin turbo). As always down to personal taste but there will always be those after the "ultimate" no matter how fine the differential is. (ps I would put money on there being a Z4m at some point!)

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Mon 06 Jul, 2009 14:56

I'm not a huge fan of the current diluting (IMO) of the M brand with the MSport models (even though I own one! - although it only has the M badges on the wheels and steering wheel, which would look worse if I took them off) - it's like bunging a load of Alpina badges on a bog standard model.
The M brand is now perceived by many to be a spec level, as opposed to being the ultimate variant of a model. They also seem to be going down the same route as AMG with X models getting M variants, and apparently there's an M7 coming (although, technically there was an E23 M7 in the South African 745i).
Conversely, there seem to be an awful lot of 'M snobs' who see the M as being the best variant of the breed - not always the case in everyday use. A good driver will be much almost certainly quicker in an M on the limit than in a standard model. But, let's face it, none of us are driving on the limit all the time. I will admit that the steering on the Z4M was better. It is interesting to note that as soon as the M's became a bit more standard production car (IMO), BMW stopped offering LSD's in standard models - surely not a co-incidence?
It's all to do with whether you think that the extra money on a new M, plus the extra on insurance, servicing and fuel equates to the potential extra whatever you get from an M during your time with it. For me, I don't think it would have on the Z4. But, I do love my E28 M5 for one reason - it's very subtle, so, people don't think it's going to be as fast as it is. A lot of people see it as just being an old BMW (even though it is pretty much mint). I had a rather entertaining trip back last summer where a bloke in an E46 M3 could not shake me and eventually decided to pull in and give up...