S3 or Z3?

markd · Post by **markd** » Mon 22 Jun, 2009 20:56

Hi,

I'm a new member here and wanted an unbiased view if I could get one...I'm in the market for a 2 seater soft top and can't decide between a 2.8 Z3 or a 2.9 TVR S3.
I can get both for about the same money, but I see both as being very different cars. The TVR is very grunty and brute, looks gorgeous, will probably need more weekend TLC, but is ultimately a "proper" sportscar. The Z3 I see as wholly more practical, safer, better designed, more reliable, but a bit "softer".
Ive owned TVRs in the past, although not driven either the S3 or a Z3, so would welcome any replies on driving experience of the 2.8 Z3.
I guess part of my decision is that, as this is a weekend plaything, do I want something I can just get in and have fun in (the Z) or do I want something that I may have to spend part of the weekend lying underneath (the TVR)!

I'd welcome any views, especially if any members have had both - but please take this post in the spirit its intended; Ive not joined this forum to slag of Z3 owners....

stu · Post by **stu** » Mon 22 Jun, 2009 21:06

Why wouldn't you go for a Chimera rather than an S3 if you're thinking about a Tiv?

markd · Post by **markd** » Mon 22 Jun, 2009 21:32

I would go for a Chimaera but a decent one is about £7k - I can get a decent S3 or Z3 for about £4.5k

mark

Justin Time · Post by **Justin Time** » Mon 22 Jun, 2009 21:43

Despite loving the looks of TVR's, the reliability of them would p*ss me off something chronic. Yes I'm always tinkering at the weekend, but it's not due to failing parts, which it probably would be if it were a TVR I owned and not a Z3. The "softer" side you refer to, from my point of view, would be the cornering capability/suspension of the Z3 and the exhaust tone. Both can be improved at moderate expense. But in the end, a Z3 (if it has been maintained thus far to satisfactory standard) should not need much maintenance in comparison to the TVR.

That is all just an opinion. I've never owned a TVR, however my eldest brother has had several and on every one of them, reliability was a problem. Taking into account the fact you have been used to the power of quite brutal sportscars, going for anything less than a 2.8 or 3.0 will leave you wanting. Best of luck with whatever you decide, and welcome to the forum.

skattrd · Post by **skattrd** » Tue 23 Jun, 2009 07:29

I did look at a TVR S2 (2.9 v6) before I recently got my Z3, but several things put me off. The main one being reliability and I wouldn't be 100% sure I could drive the car when I wanted to ... which to me defeats the point of having the car.

General concerns for me were:
Nightmare electrics - I have been led to believe the wiring in these earlier TVRs is all black.
Dubious road-holding in the wet.
A 15+ yr old fibreglass body that is past its best meaning any work that might need to be done would be expensive.

For me the Z3 was a more reliable and safer option (less likely to cost me money in the long run) ... maybe I'm getting boring in my old age.

Chris

AW8 · Post by **AW8** » Tue 23 Jun, 2009 08:01

I am sure you know this but would add that spending 4.5k on a Z3 doesnt mean you won't have issues unless you are extremely lucky & find a sorted & pampered car to desired exact spec/colour/trim wanting for nothing & importantly at a price you like.

In fairness to TVR's many Z3's circa 10 years old & so are many bushes, balljoints, PAS & brake lines, brake friction parts, hoses, belts, fluids, fabric hoods, aircon systems, alarms etc etc......Used BMW ownership sadly doesnt mean reliability on every part for life.

On a positive note Z3 electrical, trim & body repair issues may be of less concern than if owning a TVR though I am first to say I have never owned one.

topfuelking · Post by **topfuelking** » Tue 23 Jun, 2009 18:09

tvr all day

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Tue 23 Jun, 2009 19:29

Personally I'd go for the TVR but I'd try and find a V8S if they are within budget. They are meant to be a great balance of power and handling and are a rarer sight.

Running costs can be high especially if you want to keep the dealer stamps, minor service on my Chimaera 450 last week was £640 and since January has had at least £600 spent on other bits and believe it or not, mine is a "decent" one too from a TVR dealer with full history including every bill and purchase receipt and has a full warranty on it too and was considerably more than £7k to buy.

I guess it really depends on what you want the car for, I'm sure both would require tinkering at weekends, although I suspect the TVR a little more so. Saying that TVR bits are cheap as they are nearly all from ford/vaux/rover/citroen etc parts bins so if you have the mechanical know how even better.

I wouldn't have thought the TVR would be much quicker than a 2.8 Zed?

markd · Post by **markd** » Tue 23 Jun, 2009 20:02

Guys,

these are all great replies thanks......I have a bit of a love affair with Tivs, but being a company car man for the past 10 years (3series, A4s, Mercs etc) I got rid of my last Tiv a number of years ago and maybe have a rose tinted view now!!!

WHat I want is something I can blat around in at the weekend (leaving wife and 3 ankle biters at home) that will start first time, run well and put a smile on my face, whilst allowing me the odd tinker or mod....

Anyway, Ive wangled a test drive in a '99 2.8 Z3 at the weekend, so will let you know what I think......is there anything I should especially look for if I decide to buy one...also, is there anything I should especially want (i.e LSD, wind deflector etc etc)

Cheers Again
Mark

Justin Time · Post by **Justin Time** » Wed 24 Jun, 2009 10:38

This thread could be a good starting point for you.

markd · Post by **markd** » Thu 25 Jun, 2009 21:44

Thanks Justin - great tips.

I couldnt wait til the weekend so looked at the car today - its a 98 on an R and it the 2.8. Its a lovely blue with dark red leather seats, electric hood, electric seats, etc. All looks good and sounds lovely. Everything seems to work ok and body work and underneath all look good.

One issue was a really tight hood release handle on one side. Dealer said it was new and hadnt been seated correctly and that when replacing hood relase handles, both should be done, but previous owner had only done one? Sound legit or a bit moody? Also the electric hood switch only kicked in once the hood handles had been released and the hood had been manually shoved back to just behind your head? Is this right or should the motor kick in as soon as the hanldes are released?

Test drive booked for Sunday. 62k miles and its up for £5995

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Thu 25 Jun, 2009 21:57

markd wrote: Also the electric hood switch only kicked in once the hood handles had been released and the hood had been manually shoved back to just behind your head? Is this right or should the motor kick in as soon as the hanldes are released?

That's the norm

Justin Time · Post by **Justin Time** » Thu 25 Jun, 2009 21:58

AFAIK you have to release the handles and push the roof up until the joints bend slightly, then hit the button.

Hope the test goes well. Keep an eye out for possible issues.

skeete · Post by **skeete** » Thu 25 Jun, 2009 22:24

Dont forget you must have your foot on the brake for it to operate.

It should move up about 6 inches from the top of the window before it will operate. You will know as there should be resistance from the motor if you push it further.