Fun in the wet..A Warning to all

JUNGLE · Post by **JUNGLE** » Mon 09 Aug, 2004 21:06

I was out in the Z when it started raining, thought oh well the cars wet now so might as well stay out. Havent had too much time with the traction control switched off ( especially in the wet ), just the usual roundabout every now and then in the dry weather. all reasonably controllable and not at silly speeds.

So here I was out early in the morning in the wet with the Z, and thought I would turn off the traction control to see what the handling would be like and not take any tread off the tyres.

I was going round the roundabout ( one of the large ones from an A road ) and I was in 2nd gear at appx 20mph ready to gentle squeeze the throttle on the exit , but before I even reached the turn off , the back just went. Very very little warning just whizz gone..needless to say 3 seconds past with me trying to avoid the curbs and anything else and I ended 180' facing in the opposite direction.

Thankfully the roads were close to empty and thank the lucky stars I didnt hit anyone or anything.

Deffo wont be doing that again in a hurry !

Traction control ..How little do we think about u, but how much we owe

JUNGLE

AndyBass · Post by **AndyBass** » Mon 09 Aug, 2004 21:21

Ooops!!! Checked out the forum on Eurocarparts the other day. There was a request on there for parts for the front of an M3 after the owner had "collided with a lamp post trying to drift the car". Silly sod. Glad you got away with it Jungle.

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Mon 09 Aug, 2004 21:40

Jungle I found myself going backwards at 30mph the other day in the wet. I wasn't even pushing my luck. Just a slip road that had a very smooth surface & bad camber, touched the throttle on a bend & the ass end just went. I'm amazed I didn't curb it & greatful no one was coming the other way.
I am a very different driver in the wet now becuase of it. Just as well cos I'm buying (fingers crossed) an S50 M// roadster on Wed.
321bhp & no DSC !
Estoril Blue, low mileage in good nick & with hardtop. Can't wait

Mr Smart · Post by **Mr Smart** » Mon 09 Aug, 2004 23:05

been there and done that but not as lucky as you i hit a street light the big ones a curb then a school sign and then it jumped over the curb landed in a ditch on its side i jumped out light fitting from light crashed down next to me car stilling running bmw engineering for you

smashed the front bumper bent a front alloy bent my rear stub axel smashed my passenger door in smashed the sill below the door in so much that the bodyshop said you must of hit something hard to cause that steel sill that thick to stove in so much

best of all a traffic cop drove passed me and did not even stop

this happend all on boxing day and the ASC was on and it was wet and it was a bend

speed i was doing was about 30/35 mph

muffles · Post by **muffles** » Mon 09 Aug, 2004 23:21

i've turned the asc off a couple of times in the wet...don't do it!

i got the back to go similar to in the dry by applying lots of power round a corner, but the whole car just lost traction one time and was going completely sideways...scarily close to a kerb!

AdamC · Post by **AdamC** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 10:35

Leave you DSC or ASC on in the wet.... it helps to know what you do in the situation though as even ASC or DSC cant correct some mistakes. I would love to have the time and money to practice driving on a track in the wet with ASC off, but it is just too risky on the roads. I have scared myself a few times in the wet and now have much more respect and understanding for the car.

Mr Smart · Post by **Mr Smart** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 13:41

i agree have respect for the car and leave the ASC on because you don.t want to be going home in a wooden box

since my crash i respect my car a lot more as you never know that bend up head could be your last breath

321bhp · Post by **321bhp** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 14:08

my own rules for the m with no traction control

1.never go out in the wet
2.read the road ahead
3.dont drive silly

i never ever go out in the wet,as i keep it nice and dry in me garage,i always check the local weather report before i go out,if it looks like rain it dont go out,ive done under 3000 miles in 10 months ,some may say its a crime ,but thats the way i like it,nice and safe and dry,less chance of an accident as well ,and my ncb stands at 10 years

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 14:31

Fair enough Terry - I can relate to this. When you drive a car infrequently you always get a major rush each time you get into it. I reckon even if you has a Porsche GT but drove it everyday the novelty would eventually wear off.

JamieBeeston · Post by **JamieBeeston** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 14:33

Drive no matter what the weather...

DSC is great, but unfortunately makes you a worse driver for it (on the whole)

having no DSC means you DRIVE your car, you dont just pilot it.

Coming from a TVR, the ///M is alot worse a car in the wet.. its just not communicative at all.. and does just 'let go', but thats just to be expected.

Thats the problem with modern gizmos and toys, they make us all think we are driving gods, when infact (for the most part) we are just mediocre, in forgiving cars.

IMHO, we should all drive with DSC off, so you learn to RESPECT you car.

the number of muppets i see hooning around in the wet in their Scoobies / 4wds / cars that are only in 1 piece due to the electronic brains.

Be safe out there

321bhp · Post by **321bhp** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 14:59

just been out ,quick spin,yes giles another bmw rush hits me,ok added another 12 miles,but hey wot the heck,i think your correct in saying that ,drive it all the time you dont get that rush in ya blood,i love kicking that throttle and still love the sound it makes,and people do stare still ,i love that as well,whatever makes you fill good,i dont get the same rush when driving my rover 100,1.5 diesel ,even if i dont drive it for a week

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 15:04

Jamie every time I see a Chimaera I think they do look & sound rather good. I don't know if you still have the Chimaera but if not, what made you switch to an M// & do you have any regrets or maybe the opposite ?

JamieBeeston · Post by **JamieBeeston** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 18:58

Robin wrote:Jamie every time I see a Chimaera I think they do look & sound rather good. I don't know if you still have the Chimaera but if not, what made you switch to an M// & do you have any regrets or maybe the opposite ?

Was a great car, I went to the 911 after that (got clouted by a white van, whilst the TVR was off getting repaired, i got a 911 courtesy car, tvr never came back

bought 911 instead.)

Great cars.. so much fun to drive... but also a bit more 'hard work' over distance than a GT.

Certainly wouldnt like to commute distance in one too often.. not that it wasnt great, just that the 911 was nicer.

Would I have another Chim again, no, just isnt fast enough. I spent thousands on upgrades, and still lusted after more power.

the ///M was bought as a summer runaround. I wanted something that was cheap(er) but could still hold its own where neccesary.

Given i am not doing any miles, i just couldnt justify spending on a Proper sports car, given the lack of miles.. and I always had a Soft spot for the Roadster..

But still, its for sale now.. simply as the miles arent going on, and Its a shame to waste such a car.

If you get the chance, try the TVR, would make a nice upgrade from an ///M, (450 or a 500), and it actually encourages you to get the rear out, its so easy to... unlike on the M, which chastises you for it.

All nice cars, all different to each other

Big Mr P · Post by **Big Mr P** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 19:52

Of course DSC matters, to those that have it and your a fool to drive on public roads without it. But, and a thats a BIG BUT, it doesn't make you a good driver. The funny thing is, I tend to drive slower in the wet, I enjoy driving my car on its limits. Don't be fooled into thinking DSC will save you, if you are to quick into that corner the outcome will always be the same, tears

. Know your car and drive to it, what ever it is, you will then always have fun.

Happy motoring.

Phooto · Post by **Phooto** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 21:45

I was warned when collecting my 330d to never switch off the DSC.

With 410NM, and 255s on the back, wet weather would be a disaster...

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Tue 10 Aug, 2004 22:37

Jamie thanks for relating your experiences of those cars. Sounds like each have their own particular appeal.

JamieBeeston · Post by **JamieBeeston** » Wed 11 Aug, 2004 00:07

Robin wrote:Jamie thanks for relating your experiences of those cars. Sounds like each have their own particular appeal.

No Worries,

feel free to PM if you want any other info, just dont want to take the thread too far OT

http://997tt.com
http://vsupermarket.co.uk/tvr

for pix

JUNGLE · Post by **JUNGLE** » Wed 11 Aug, 2004 21:01

Seems I had a lucky escape compared to some...As said I wont be doing it again in a hurry

Regards
JUNGLE

muffles · Post by **muffles** » Wed 11 Aug, 2004 21:09

i won't need to look out for any dented blue z's around here then

hope you don't get to see any dented silver ones! i had better be a bit more careful huh

JUNGLE · Post by **JUNGLE** » Wed 11 Aug, 2004 21:13

Thakfully Muffles NO !!!

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Thu 12 Aug, 2004 10:33

Just bought an immaculate Estoril Blue M// Roadster with low mileage & a hard top & extendable warranty for an excellent price.
Initial thoughts

Initial thoughts (long)

It's not so much the extra power compared to the 2.8. It's the improved handling & roadholding.
Back to the topic. I've just been out in the wet & becuase the car is more sure footed than the 2.8 I didn't have a problem with no DSC or is it ASC, whichever. I deliberately span the wheels in 1st in a straight line & no problem. My son then suggested we go to a deserted car park & try some donuts in the wet. This was a very interesting experience from which I gained some insight on how to correct things if the back end does go. It also made us

.
Provided you're not going too fast & as long as you lay off the loud pedal on any kind of bend in the wet then I don't think the back end will go.
In fact before I had appreciated the importance of laying off the loud pedal on bends in the wet, I lost the back end on two occasions with the 2.8 & that was with DSC, so beware of letting DSC give you a false sense of security !

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Thu 12 Aug, 2004 12:44

JamieBeeston wrote:Drive no matter what the weather...

DSC is great, but unfortunately makes you a worse driver for it (on the whole)

having no DSC means you DRIVE your car, you dont just pilot it.

Coming from a TVR, the ///M is alot worse a car in the wet.. its just not communicative at all.. and does just 'let go', but thats just to be expected.

Jamie,
Agree
Agree
Eh.. come on..

Which model.. Griffs and earlier cars were horriffic and later cars on/off throttle is a real challange.. yes more communication due to zero assistance but the chassis is far more inclined to oversteer per se. I've been in and seen TVRs in the wet and they can be the scariest things on the road - epsecially when you consider their brakes. If you're finding the M worse then I'd check out the tyres or suspension just in case.. I find the M a little uncommunicative but rear grip is excellent and far better than a trevor's ..when off cam.. when and where you apply the right foot tends to determine when a car will snap oversteer... generally all of our cars have excellent tyres and for a spin to occur the following things must be in effect;

- overly keen entry speed.
- overly aggressive steering input
- overly keen right foot..
- incorrect tyre pressures
- poor or damage suspension geo
- poor camber or uneven surface (i.e. bump steer)
- diesel

Now the first 5 we can all do something to avoid and the last 2 is down to luck and knowing roads unfortunately.. if you don't know a road then back-off until you do. Disel - well there is little that can be done there..

If all factors are avoided then the car will grip like no tomorrow.. the lack of feel at the front end is undeniable but the steering is weighty and the trick is to know where you are.. stay smooth and don't try to send 300 ponies through the rears.. what people forget about the M is that despite a realtively low max torque figure.. both power and torque even at 3000 revs is already high and the car will respond quickly if you are in a lower gear with max torque @ 3500rpm which isn't very far from idle.. At 3000 revs the M is already making in excess of 200bhp

I've been in non-DSC situations and I can just about place one of the above factors that cause the oversteer.. and most often that not it could have been avoided.. when a passenger in my m8s 328 I wince with the inputs he's putting in round a round-a-bout.. scary..

Sta safe and stay off cam round roundabouts.. replace your tires before they become illegal.. say no less than an even 3mm all round.. drive to the conditions and hopefully we'll all be here come next year... the slippy weather has started.

If u have DSC for goodnes sake keep it on but drive as if you didn't have it.

zroadster.net

Fun in the wet..A Warning to all

Fun in the wet..A Warning to all

The message is clear

hi

hi

Is DSC really necessary ?