Bertini GT25 - new Z3 body change kitcar

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Choc
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Bertini GT25 - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

I'm in the process of developing a body change kit for the BMW Z3. We have are making good progress on the front end and I have included a progress picture which has been photoshopped to show the desired design for the front.

I'm hoping for a completed car by the end of the summer and an official launch at next years stoneleigh show.

I have tried to capture and combine elements of the;
Muscle of the AC Cobra
Lines of the E-type
Presence of the 250 GTO
and modern feel of the XK180 and Eagle Speedster
With a little bit of Maserati and Aston Martin thrown in.

I'm not trying to create a replica car. It's intended to be a modern car with a modern design taking classic inspiration.
It will fit all the Z3 cars. Normal, widebody, Z3M roadster etc.... I can't wait to get it finished.

I have a Facebook page that I update regularly and will be posting build updates.
https://www.facebook.com/BertiniGT25

*** UPDATE The following pictures are very much work in progress. but more up to date than before. ***

Image

Image

ignore the wheels ;-)

Image

Image
Last edited by Choc on Mon 01 Sep, 2014 13:06, edited 2 times in total.
Bertini GT25 - Kitcar based on the BMW Z3 and Z3M roadster
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Choc
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

photo deleted
Last edited by Choc on Thu 09 Jan, 2014 23:38, edited 1 time in total.
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BladeRunner919
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by BladeRunner919 »

Hmm. Looks ok, but I think you'll find most people on here bought a Z3 because they wanted a Z3, not to replace the body on.
Choc
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

Yep... I know what u mean. I thought some people might be interested as I'm using the Z3 as a base car. I just always had a dream of designing and building my own kitcar. And I have now finally persuaded the wife to et me have a go :-)

I hope some of you guys like it :-)
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BladeRunner919
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by BladeRunner919 »

In fairness, I do like the look of it - it has a classic front end that cars sadly lack these days. And I'd certainly be interested in learning how you've done it, etc, etc.

Just won't be re-bodying my Zed anytime soon!

Oh, and welcome to the forum!!
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Boysie
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Boysie »

I will try and look for a photo to add
Your car looks very similar to one of my very first sports cars
It was a Lenham Le Mans GT, it was built on an Austin Healey Sprite donor/base car
It had a E type Jaguar front and an Aston Martin Rear, it was a sotft top, you nornally see the coupe racing
A lovely looking car, i had it sprayed white after somebody shunted me
I didnt realise what i had at the time :head:
I look at the prices now, they are worth a lot of money
A high quality kit car, i believe it was around the Marcos kit car era 70's
Ray

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Choc
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

We are starting on the back end soon.
Think BMW Z8 and etype series1.
Twin central upswept exhausts
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Gazza »

Well done so far, afterall a Z1 is an E30 in another guise ;)
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Boysie »

Gazza wrote:Well done so far, afterall a Z1 is an E30 in another guise ;)
A bit of useless info
I assume most people know this, i didnt

The Z in Z1 originally stood for Zukunft (German for future)
and would later be used on other cars in the line: the Z3, Z4, and Z8).

And there is only one right hand Z1 produced, i wonder who has that
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Eastsix »

If you could produce an affordable replica of the z3 hamann hardtop you'd sell a tonne of them - useful cashflow for your main project!
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by TaffZee »

Good time to use a Z3 as a donor car, cheap as chips at the moment. Not sure I quite like the front though, something fishy about it, If you see what I mean?

But the lines are almost there, just needs that mouth sorting out narrowing and stretching/thining perhaps. I dont like cars with faces, so the lights need to be modern (not round)something like an Audi it reminds me of the rear end of a TVR at the moment, sorry but you asked.
Be interesting to see the profile and it rear end...
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by PCSAM »

interesting . keep up the good work , I would like to see it finished ........ and ill have the first hamann hardtop you make :D
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Gonorr
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Gonorr »

Eastsix wrote:If you could produce an affordable replica of the z3 hamann hardtop you'd sell a tonne of them - useful cashflow for your main project!
Maybe some door mirror shells too?
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

I have been toying with some mirror shells. And following launch I the kit I will be looking a doing a fastback coupe version.

If anyone knows someone who has a hamman hard top I can borrow for a few days i might be able to work on a replica.
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BladeRunner919
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by BladeRunner919 »

Choc wrote:I have been toying with some mirror shells. And following launch I the kit I will be looking a doing a fastback coupe version.

If anyone knows someone who has a hamman hard top I can borrow for a few days i might be able to work on a replica.
I'm sure Deano will lend you his when it arrives. :roflmao:
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Lewy »

Gazza wrote:Well done so far, afterall a Z1 is an E30 in another guise ;)
And a z3 is kind of an E30 / E36 mongrel! :lol: But we love 'em of course ;)

Fair play to the OP, doing something different! I like it, hats off to you. Look forward to the updates :)
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Choc
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

There has been some progress and a few re-designs.
Namely the design for the front grill has been tapered slightly and the nose squared off with a longer bottom splitter.
Fabrication has also started on the rear. - Still a way to go but im happy with the progress.

Also a name change... Bertini GT25

Image
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

Bertini GT25 - Kitcar based on the BMW Z3 and Z3M roadster
https://www.facebook.com/BertiniGT25
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

here are a few more progress pictures and a shot of my logo/badge design

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Gazza »

Bottom air intake looks much better ;)
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

Thanks Gazza. I think it looks a bit more aggressive :-)
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

here is a progress picture of the front - there are some more pics on my facebook site: https://www.facebook.com/BertiniGT25

Image
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gas guzzler
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by gas guzzler »

I really like that, nice lines to it, bit Ginetta looking. Think you'll do quite well with that, Z3s are quite cheap now. Depending on what the backside looks like and ease of build (and of course price) I can imagine quite a few people who like kit cars going for it. BMW power and reliability under a nice looking body and a car thats not a Cobra replica, nice. Of course you run the risk of being lynched by Z3 owners :) Mind you I know of a couple of Z3s close to me with very poor body work but seem to go quite well so good candidates for a new body.
Good luck with it be intrested to see end results.

Andy
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Gazza
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Gazza »

Coming along nicely
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

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Southernboy
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Southernboy »

Looks good, but I will concur on the headlight style....perhaps look into using something less "lizard" and more "oriental"... :wink:
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Choc
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

Image

Here is one with the lights in. :-)
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Southernboy
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Southernboy »

.....OK, more like a Gheko than a lizard....somewhat Porche 928 headlights...maybe it's the combo with the upper intake shape...did you try photoshopping with a Aston Martin "mouth" vs the oval you have at present...I'm trying to imagine a grill of sorts in that hole...and it desperately needs something...reminds me of a grandmother at the moment..."toothless"..... :shock:
Still...very interested in where it's going... :wink:
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Choc
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

I'm not a big fan of the Aston grill. Too iconic and also you see hem on every fiesta, focus etc.
the shape of the front is not changing now. The work has gone in. And I'm pretty happy with the way it will balance the rear. Take a look at the Facebook page. There are a few side profile shots there.

I may change the headlights however to some different ones with DRLs and angel spots. That will detract from the 'face' appearance and make it look more sharp. I can't tell if it will work until I change the lights.

You must have a good looking grandmother ;-)
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Southernboy
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Southernboy »

ha ha ha....touche... :wink:
But you're 100% right about the roof...it def needs a hard top...perhaps a T top, so that it easily opens up the roof and parts can be stored in the boot or behind the seats...and must be lined inside...a well shaped 6mm tubular aluminium skeleton with polystyrene inbetween the framework, covered in CF or fiberglass skin inside and out...the ally will give rigidity but make it extremely lightweight if you can keep the fiberglass to a couple of mm's on the faces. Also allows a decent clip on bracket to be fitted and latched onto the car up front with the OEM roof clips...with a T top you can afford to have the removable top pieces go all the wat back to the rear window frame...perhaps tinted glass or polycarbonate removable tops...Hey, one can have loads of imaginative fun here...enjoy, and I look forward to the next release... :D
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Ferdinand »

Which car do the lights come from?? (Fiat 500??)

Would have loved to see double headlights - like a Bristol Fighter ;o)
Last edited by Ferdinand on Sun 28 Jul, 2013 21:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by John Wilson »

Sorry, we're all putting in our three pennyworth, as if we could do better, but....
The bit of bodywork between the headlight and the front grill appears to have a ridge between it. This, to me interrupts the flow of bodywork around the grill. Just a thought. Looks great.
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

Image

Image

Thanks for the input guys. I looked at lots of lighting options. Double and triple lights were tomething i considered using lights from an Alfa GTV. But it did not quite work with the look of the car i was trying to achieve. I wanted curves, ovals and and circles. trying to keeping it as simple.

i dont think there is a reide between the grills and the lights, im not sure im looking in the same place - it could be a shodow? the pictures were taken under a tree in very bright daylight.

Yes - the front lights are fiat 500. but im not 100% sure i will use the OEM ones as there are some aftermarket fiat 500 halogens with angel eyes and DLR. not sure if they will work - im going to try them out next week.
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Ferdinand »

You should go for the original Fiat 500 Xenon headlamps - and The DRL function could be in the front fogs - just an idea...
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

I have just picked up the wheels!

They are BBS 18" split rims - with an anthracite centre and silver barrel.

Image

for quicker progress updates and more pictures 'like' my facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/BertiniGT25
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by swamper »

great thread... 8-)
the badness makes me do it...!

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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Del »

Nice looking wheels. The combination of the spokes and hole pattern give them a very aggressive, sporty track look in the same way that large brake discs do with holes and grooves. 8-)
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by gookah »

as fitted to many E85/6 Z4's BMW style 108's....
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

Spot on. BMW 108's. refurbished in anthracite and silver. :-)
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by gas guzzler »

I thought I recognised the 'Bertini' name, being a MX5 owner as well I've just remembered you were originally going to base the car on a MX5. Good idea to swap there's already loads of kits for the 5.
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by wonderloaf »

Excellent thread this. I've always fancied building a kit car but could never justify the expense and time to do it, but now it looks as though when my zed gets a bit long in the tooth I could spend a bit of money using it as the basis of a kit car without having to find a donor vehicle!
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

i have just finished the Bertini GT25 Website. Its got lots of the progress pictures on it and i intend on keeping it up to date.

www.BertiniGT25.com


i also like the fiat 500 xenons - but unfortunatly they also have pop out washers on them and it could get a bit complicated. i am looking at some aftermarket DLR 500 lights though :-)

Cheers for all the nice comments.
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

Just finished the mould for the front end.
It should be good for about 200 bonnets :-)

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Southernboy
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Southernboy »

You're getting there...Very good thread you have going here...
That looks like one 'kin ugly mudfish you're holding there.... :roflmao:
Looking forward to the next instalment... :rtm:
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

The moulding does have an attractive upper lip going on! Lol
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Re: Bertini GT25 new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

A sneak preview news article featuring the Bertini GT25 has just been published in Complete Kit Car magazine. The words have been blurred by request of the editors. But they said nice things :-)

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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by barbancourt »

Looks ok, and I admire the work, but the question I have is, "Do you think that you improved upon the original looks?"

Personally, I think it looks better in stock form. It's not that yours looks bad... it's just that if cost wasn't an issue and I had to pick between the two, I'd keep the original.
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

Is a good question. And I think it all comes down to personal taste and I'm glad that you like my design too.
I just really wanted to make and design a car. And the Z3 seemed like an excellent base car.

I'm hoping to offer something different. That will appeal to a few. :-)

I have a long way to go.... Starting on the rear fabrication soon.
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Kornknarr »

Very interesting to follow this.
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Del »

barbancourt wrote:Looks ok, and I admire the work, but the question I have is, "Do you think that you improved upon the original looks?"
I understand your point. Back in the "stone age" when I first became interested in cars it was popular to make a sports car out of a non-sports car e.g. fit a sporty body onto a car like a mini or beetle. I remember the Mini Marcos conversion. I don't claim to be up to date in the kit car world but personally, I hesitate to see the benefit of changing one sports car into another sports car. I think sports cars age well and tend to look attractively retro as they age. However, I acknowledge that people may want something more unique and perhaps lighter weight for performance reasons. :)
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Re: Bertini Falco - new Z3 body change kitcar

Post by Choc »

It is a good point. I am primarily wanting to make a car for me though. I want to drive something unique and I have designed. The Z3 is a very good value sports car and seemed lie the perfect choice for my project.

If anyone else like it then that's a real bonus in my eyes. But I would love to sell a few kits and make my money back.

The Z3 is a good looking car and I don't mean to des respect it. (I currently own three of them)
I just think it might be a fun low cost entry for a novice to get into he kitcar world with a very easy build.
Bertini GT25 - Kitcar based on the BMW Z3 and Z3M roadster
https://www.facebook.com/BertiniGT25
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