Interesting eBay ad

UK forum for general and technical discussion about the Z3 roadster
wella_fella
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Interesting eBay ad

Post by wella_fella »

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200933729403

Just seen this on eBay. Although its low mileage, it's a bit steep isn't it?

Obviously a dealer, but any truth in the text about what he describes as mk1 (pre facelift) prices rising?

Mod Edit: Shortened URL replaced - please use direct links so that people know what site they will be visiting. R.
Zed Carer
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Zed Carer »

wella_fella wrote:Obviously a dealer, but any truth in the text about what he describes as mk1 (pre facelift) prices rising?
Not sure about the prices rising but I do know that I spent 6 months looking for pre-facelift 2.8 in Montreal Blue / black interior and with the M52TU engine (i.e. built between Oct 98 and Mar 99). I only found one at a dealer in the New Forest and at the time his price was around £2k more than other similar age/mileage Z3s. Virtually all the Montreal Blue Z3s I've seen have the beige interior - perhaps I should have bought one of those and then changed the interior!
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paul.s
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by paul.s »

he is right about the pre facelift cars being more desirable (as far as im concerned anyway :lol: ).
Eastsix
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Eastsix »

Well im about to put mine on autotrader, so i'll let you know!

I know we're not supposed to compare, but i dont know why they added the flares on the rear arches. A facelift is supposed to improve looks, but I MUCH prefer the flat, smooth look of an original widebody like mine. Of course, the M never got the flares either. . .
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gookah
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by gookah »

I would disagree, my asslift is more curvy.
Had 1 prefacelift and 3 facelifts and prefer the latter everytime..
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Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Personal choice end of the day but I much prefer the facelift as it looks lovely from the rear with the wings swooping up, prefacelift looks a tad blander.

Tim.
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Rafolian
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Rafolian »

I see the dealer describes it as a much "sort" after classic convertible. I wonder what sort that is?
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Pep
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Pep »

gookah wrote:I would disagree, my asslift is more curvy.
Had 1 prefacelift and 3 facelifts and prefer the latter everytime..
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Z3cade
Joined: Sat 09 Jan, 2010 18:18
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Z3cade »

Narr pre facelift much better.. 8-)

That 2.8 is good price.. I'd pay 10k for it as its so low milage, oh yes as milage is everything.. :roll:
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Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Del »

Regarding the comments made by the dealer - is he just spouting BS or does he have some industry facts/knowledge showing that certain non-M models have turned the corner in terms of values? :?:
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

Del wrote:Regarding the comments made by the dealer - is he just spouting BS or does he have some industry facts/knowledge showing that certain non-M models have turned the corner in terms of values? :?:
Yep the values are going down still.

Dealers live on another planet when it comes to pricing
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sirius-c
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by sirius-c »

well i paid £2795 for my 1997 2.8 in october 2012.... with only 46k on the clock
I thought it was a steal :D
Designed or not designed, that is the question.
Rafolian
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Rafolian »

I bought my '98 2.8 last June on e-bay. Totally mint, full bmwsh, 64k miles, full big bore twin stainless exhaust, carbon induction kit, m50 manifold and throttle body, strut brace, sterieo upgrade, brand new staggered alloys with new falken tyres and just been serviced including diff and gearbox oils and air-con regas. Snip at £3250 I think!
Takumi
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Takumi »

seems a bit steep to me (optomistic?).... I just bought an 02 2.2 sport with half that mileage for much much less!!!

As for facelift and pre facelift.... I think the early model is very colour / wheel dependent but I think both look good...
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

You have to remember Z3s are entering banger status hence the cheapie prices :wink:

Tim.
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freds dad
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by freds dad »

Don't you mean Classic Car status unlike its replacement which is too computerised :lol:
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

freds dad wrote:Don't you mean Classic Car status unlike its replacement which is too computerised :lol:
I think its banger before classic car status :lol:

Tim.
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barbancourt
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by barbancourt »

Pep wrote:
Dem hips Image

Facelift model...

Image
ImageImageImage
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

The back of the m car reminds me of the old Porsches.

Second to none.

The z4's and newer versions just don't compare.

No where near in fact.

IMHO!
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Badman gee wrote:The back of the m car reminds me of the old Porsches.

Second to none.

The z4's and newer versions just don't compare.

No where near in fact.

IMHO!
Sorry, completely disagree there, the E89 is stunning piece of BMW design, I think you need to own one to fully appreciate it, oh hang on......you don't :wink:

Tim.
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

TitanTim wrote:
Badman gee wrote:The back of the m car reminds me of the old Porsches.

Second to none.

The z4's and newer versions just don't compare.

No where near in fact.

IMHO!
Sorry, completely disagree there, the E89 is stunning piece of BMW design, I think you need to own one to fully appreciate it, oh hang on......you don't :wink:

Tim.
Don't want to Tim, rather have the z3m.

And if I do want a modern BMW it would be the 1M coupe.

More exclusive than the common e89!

Im glad you don't agree, it would be a boring world if you did.

And all thought the same.
Last edited by Badman gee on Sat 15 Jun, 2013 15:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Rafolian
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Rafolian »

Sterieo should read stereo, oh dear!
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Badman gee wrote:
TitanTim wrote:
Badman gee wrote:The back of the m car reminds me of the old Porsches.

Second to none.

The z4's and newer versions just don't compare.

No where near in fact.

IMHO!
Sorry, completely disagree there, the E89 is stunning piece of BMW design, I think you need to own one to fully appreciate it, oh hang on......you don't :wink:

Tim.
Don't want to Tim, rather have the z3m.

And if I do want a modern BMW it would be the 1M coupe.

More exclusive than the common e89!

Im glad you don't agree, it would be a boring world if you did.

And all thought the same.
Exclusivity doesn't make it better :wink:

Tim.
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

Not going to argue all night Tim, but the 1m coupe is a monster.
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Zed Carer
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Zed Carer »

TitanTim wrote:Sorry, completely disagree there, the E89 is stunning piece of BMW design, I think you need to own one to fully appreciate it, oh hang on......you don't :wink:

Tim.
Ufortunately whether it is; or is not is purely subjective - my wife thinks the E89 is stunning ** to look at whilst I don't. But looks are the least of the problems with the E89 as even posts on Z4-forum quoting the 2012 BMW Financial Results show that commercially the E89 is possibly (probably?) BMW's biggest commercial mistake - 18,800 sold in 2011 but even with the massive dealer subsidies in 2012 only 15,249. Some would say that "Sold" is not actually true given that various posts on forums have estimated that 70%+ of the Z4s are on PCP so will all be coming back to the dealers in the future.

IMO it has now lead to cars that are designed for the warranty period with main dealer only servicing as this is the only way that dealers can make any real return. There are various posts both in the UK and US about replacing the rear brake pads as only dealers can de-activate the E-brake so what is a £30 to £50 DIY job on the Z3 or E85 Z4 now becomes a £200+ cost on the E89. BMW (and the other mainstream makers) are governed by the commercial market; i.e. fleet sales, leasing, PCP, etc and these are now governed by emmissions, fuel economy, etc. The downside is that IMO none of the main manufacturers now produce a vehicle suitable as a long term keeper for the owner/driver - hopefully given the much lower milegages that our Z3 and E85 Z4 are now doing they will last for another 10 to 20 years.

** Even though she thinks it looks stunning she won't be buying one as it doesn't meet her needs and for that she much prefers her E85.
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

Interesting read bill. ^
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Zed Carer wrote:
TitanTim wrote:Sorry, completely disagree there, the E89 is stunning piece of BMW design, I think you need to own one to fully appreciate it, oh hang on......you don't :wink:

Tim.
Ufortunately whether it is; or is not is purely subjective - my wife thinks the E89 is stunning ** to look at whilst I don't. But looks are the least of the problems with the E89 as even posts on Z4-forum quoting the 2012 BMW Financial Results show that commercially the E89 is possibly (probably?) BMW's biggest commercial mistake - 18,800 sold in 2011 but even with the massive dealer subsidies in 2012 only 15,249. Some would say that "Sold" is not actually true given that various posts on forums have estimated that 70%+ of the Z4s are on PCP so will all be coming back to the dealers in the future.

IMO it has now lead to cars that are designed for the warranty period with main dealer only servicing as this is the only way that dealers can make any real return. There are various posts both in the UK and US about replacing the rear brake pads as only dealers can de-activate the E-brake so what is a £30 to £50 DIY job on the Z3 or E85 Z4 now becomes a £200+ cost on the E89. BMW (and the other mainstream makers) are governed by the commercial market; i.e. fleet sales, leasing, PCP, etc and these are now governed by emmissions, fuel economy, etc. The downside is that IMO none of the main manufacturers now produce a vehicle suitable as a long term keeper for the owner/driver - hopefully given the much lower milegages that our Z3 and E85 Z4 are now doing they will last for another 10 to 20 years.

** Even though she thinks it looks stunning she won't be buying one as it doesn't meet her needs and for that she much prefers her E85.
All cars are getting complicated to a point there will be virtually no budding home mechanics who can play with them in future, but so long as they are reliable will happily last as long any current Z3, Z1 etc. You have to remember the Z3 and MK1 Z4s are old cars now and the game has moved on in quality and technology. Like you say all cars mean different things to different people and looks are subjective. Personally the MK1 Z4 wasn't a real progression over the Z3 both in driveability and quality whereas the E89 is streets ahead over the old Z4. Regarding sales its just general economic climate. Roadsters are a luxury and generally tend to be a second car which for many spending 30K and over in cash isn't an option these days so step in PCPs and high dealer contributions which is happening across the BMW range, particularly the M3 recently, so its not just the E89 :wink:

Tim.
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Zed Carer
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Zed Carer »

Tim at least we agree that the major manufacturers are producing cars that only they can service, etc in the future but to answer your points:
All cars are getting complicated to a point there will be virtually no budding home mechanics who can play with them in future, but so long as they are reliable will happily last as long any current Z3, Z1 etc.
What about all the ex-main dealer mechanics that over the years have setup specialist BMW/Merc/Audi/Etc garages and have provided, in a lot of cases, a very good alternative to the main dealers? If the manufacturers keep software retricted to franchised dealers only then a lot of excellent independent garages coud be in real difficulty - hopefully EU anti-trade legislation will prevent this. I use both the local main dealer who is very good and a trusted independent.
You have to remember the Z3 and MK1 Z4s are old cars now and the game has moved on in quality and technology.

What technology? A car is quite a simple machine it needs/has an engine, transmision, drive train, wheels, steering mechanism, suspension, brakes, instrumentation, lights and seats to make it road legal and driveable. Engine technology was moving forward but IMO is now solely being driven by reduced emmissions and lower fuel consumption to ensure a good market share of the "corporate" market and PCP for private individuals. One of the members on here took his modern technology 330 over Hardknott Pass and on the uphill 1 in 3 hairpin bends when you need a quick short burst of power the new ATC system cut in and reduced the power to the extent that the car came to a standstill. So the new technology actually made the car virtually undrivable on a UK public road! On Saturday the 5 Z3s had no problems even though they don't have any new technology.
Like you say all cars mean different things to different people and looks are subjective.
Fortunately we like the styles of both the Z3 and E85 equally.
Personally the MK1 Z4 wasn't a real progression over the Z3 both in driveability and quality whereas the E89 is streets ahead over the old Z4.

Sorry but having had a 1.9 Z3 for nearly 7 years and 45k miles, the 2.8 for 5 years and 23k miles and the E85 for nearly 6 years and 44k miles they are actually chalk and cheese and we never try and compare them. For us the E85 is light years ahead of the Z3 particularly in terms of the build quality, suspension and driveability as it was designed and was not a "parts bin" car like the Z3. Not sure why you think that a car, looking at posts on other forums here and in the USA, with turbo whine, noisy injectors, etc is streets ahead of the E85? When I've been out in the E89 on a few favourite local roads I found little difference in driveability between it and the Z3, the E89 was quieter and more refined but not noticeable any faster through the bendy bits. For us each has it's good and not so good points and whereas the Z3 was, for us, the obvious choice for the trip to the Lake District last weekend the Z4 will be doing our 1,500 mile Scottish road trip later this month.
Regarding sales its just general economic climate.
Sorry but you need to look at the full results for 2011 and 2012 across all the so-called "luxury" manufacturers:
BMW:
Overall Sales up by 11.6%
Increases in all models except 7 Series and the E89.

Porsche reported increased sales across all models.

MB reported increased sales for all models with the C-Coupe, SLK, E-cabriolet and CLS Coupe increasing sales by 3% and taking first place in each of their respective market segments.

So the general economic requirement doesn't appear to have affected other models/manufacturers?

Roadsters are a luxury and generally tend to be a second car which for many spending 30K and over in cash isn't an option these days so step in PCPs and high dealer contributions which is happening across the BMW range, particularly the M3 recently, so its not just the E89
So the manufacturers have cars that they can't sell possibly because as you say people can't afford to buy them so they subsidise them; quite heavily in some cases. However doesn't this go towards proving that the major manufacturers have to concentrate on the corporate market market and not the owner (i.e. someone who does actually pay £30k) driver? It will interesting over the next few years to see where the Baby Boomers who are starting to collect their pension lump sums spend their money?
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

To sum up then, e89 boring cold machine that can only be sold by offering Hugh discounts or pcp offers.(it also looks like all new bmw cars) , z3, z3m a classic in the making.

:lol:
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snoops
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by snoops »

Good read Bill. ..
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Zed Carer wrote:Tim at least we agree that the major manufacturers are producing cars that only they can service, etc in the future but to answer your points:
All cars are getting complicated to a point there will be virtually no budding home mechanics who can play with them in future, but so long as they are reliable will happily last as long any current Z3, Z1 etc.
What about all the ex-main dealer mechanics that over the years have setup specialist BMW/Merc/Audi/Etc garages and have provided, in a lot of cases, a very good alternative to the main dealers? If the manufacturers keep software retricted to franchised dealers only then a lot of excellent independent garages coud be in real difficulty - hopefully EU anti-trade legislation will prevent this. I use both the local main dealer who is very good and a trusted independent.
You have to remember the Z3 and MK1 Z4s are old cars now and the game has moved on in quality and technology.

What technology? A car is quite a simple machine it needs/has an engine, transmision, drive train, wheels, steering mechanism, suspension, brakes, instrumentation, lights and seats to make it road legal and driveable. Engine technology was moving forward but IMO is now solely being driven by reduced emmissions and lower fuel consumption to ensure a good market share of the "corporate" market and PCP for private individuals. One of the members on here took his modern technology 330 over Hardknott Pass and on the uphill 1 in 3 hairpin bends when you need a quick short burst of power the new ATC system cut in and reduced the power to the extent that the car came to a standstill. So the new technology actually made the car virtually undrivable on a UK public road! On Saturday the 5 Z3s had no problems even though they don't have any new technology.
Like you say all cars mean different things to different people and looks are subjective.
Fortunately we like the styles of both the Z3 and E85 equally.
Personally the MK1 Z4 wasn't a real progression over the Z3 both in driveability and quality whereas the E89 is streets ahead over the old Z4.

Sorry but having had a 1.9 Z3 for nearly 7 years and 45k miles, the 2.8 for 5 years and 23k miles and the E85 for nearly 6 years and 44k miles they are actually chalk and cheese and we never try and compare them. For us the E85 is light years ahead of the Z3 particularly in terms of the build quality, suspension and driveability as it was designed and was not a "parts bin" car like the Z3. Not sure why you think that a car, looking at posts on other forums here and in the USA, with turbo whine, noisy injectors, etc is streets ahead of the E85? When I've been out in the E89 on a few favourite local roads I found little difference in driveability between it and the Z3, the E89 was quieter and more refined but not noticeable any faster through the bendy bits. For us each has it's good and not so good points and whereas the Z3 was, for us, the obvious choice for the trip to the Lake District last weekend the Z4 will be doing our 1,500 mile Scottish road trip later this month.
Regarding sales its just general economic climate.
Sorry but you need to look at the full results for 2011 and 2012 across all the so-called "luxury" manufacturers:
BMW:
Overall Sales up by 11.6%
Increases in all models except 7 Series and the E89.

Porsche reported increased sales across all models.

MB reported increased sales for all models with the C-Coupe, SLK, E-cabriolet and CLS Coupe increasing sales by 3% and taking first place in each of their respective market segments.

So the general economic requirement doesn't appear to have affected other models/manufacturers?

Roadsters are a luxury and generally tend to be a second car which for many spending 30K and over in cash isn't an option these days so step in PCPs and high dealer contributions which is happening across the BMW range, particularly the M3 recently, so its not just the E89
So the manufacturers have cars that they can't sell possibly because as you say people can't afford to buy them so they subsidise them; quite heavily in some cases. However doesn't this go towards proving that the major manufacturers have to concentrate on the corporate market market and not the owner (i.e. someone who does actually pay £30k) driver? It will interesting over the next few years to see where the Baby Boomers who are starting to collect their pension lump sums spend their money?
I know I have the right Zed,

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=849338

:D :wink:

Tim.
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Badman gee wrote:To sum up then, e89 boring cold machine that can only be sold by offering Hugh discounts or pcp offers.(it also looks like all new bmw cars) , z3, z3m a classic in the making.

:lol:
Do you own an E89?

Tim.
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

Tim, I'm only joking, they are a lovely car but not for me.

I'm just into older retro cars, and big beasts like the old m5/m6 etc

Mark
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Badman gee wrote:Tim, I'm only joking, they are a lovely car but not for me.

I'm just into older retro cars, and big beasts like the old m5/m6 etc

Mark
I hate the Z3M, terrible awful cars, chassis can't handle the power, rear diff detaches itself, Vanos problems tut tut BMW!!.......only joking!

I may still get one day when they're worth nothing :lol: :wink:

Tim.
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

I agree Tim, but I love em.

Never owned a car as good, lovely inside and doesn't really date.

Plenty of power and so much fun to drive!

:lol:
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Zed Carer »

Badman gee wrote:To sum up then, e89 boring cold machine that can only be sold by offering Hugh discounts or pcp offers.(it also looks like all new bmw cars) , z3, z3m a classic in the making.

:lol:
Not so much boring but as a car for long distance trips in the USA in particular I didn't really feel "engaged" with it - very competent at what it does but without any real excitement. What seems to be hurting BMW is not really denting MB's sales of the CLK and SLK in the USA. I didn't get any "this is special" feeling and although my wife thinks it looks stunning she felt it was like a 3 Series with a movable roof and not a sports car.
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

Zed Carer wrote:
Badman gee wrote:To sum up then, e89 boring cold machine that can only be sold by offering Hugh discounts or pcp offers.(it also looks like all new bmw cars) , z3, z3m a classic in the making.

:lol:
Not so much boring but as a car for long distance trips in the USA in particular I didn't really feel "engaged" with it - very competent at what it does but without any real excitement. What seems to be hurting BMW is not really denting MB's sales of the CLK and SLK in the USA. I didn't get any "this is special" feeling and although my wife thinks it looks stunning she felt it was like a 3 Series with a movable roof and not a sports car.
I agree, the z3m makes every journey feel special.

If I had a new BMW, it would have to be the 1 M coupe!

That's a real beast
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Zed Carer wrote:
Badman gee wrote:To sum up then, e89 boring cold machine that can only be sold by offering Hugh discounts or pcp offers.(it also looks like all new bmw cars) , z3, z3m a classic in the making.

:lol:
Not so much boring but as a car for long distance trips in the USA in particular I didn't really feel "engaged" with it - very competent at what it does but without any real excitement. What seems to be hurting BMW is not really denting MB's sales of the CLK and SLK in the USA. I didn't get any "this is special" feeling and although my wife thinks it looks stunning she felt it was like a 3 Series with a movable roof and not a sports car.
Definitely a sports car, you weren't driving it properly :wink: :head:

The interior alone makes it a special place to be compared to any other Roadster in its price range :head:

Tim.
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

The interior of the z3m is special, feels nice and snug
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Badman gee wrote:The interior of the z3m is special, feels nice and snug
Completely agree, each time I sit in my Z3, I think 1990s :lol:

Tim.
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Badman gee
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

I bet the e89 is no different to drive than a 3 series!
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TitanTim
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Badman gee wrote:I bet the e89 is no different to drive than a 3 series!
Have you driven the latest 3 Series, very nice too :wink:

Tim.
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

No I haven't, but I had an e46 one years ago

Very good car
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Zed Carer
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Zed Carer »

The engine is only one part of the equation and some would say not a vital part as a decent engine with rubbish suspension does not make a good car but glad that you are happy with it.

The NA straight sixes won engine of the year 6 years in a row so the new turbos have got to win 5 more years to get to that. When I last looked there are at least 2 M52 2.8s in the USA that have got to 300,000 miles with regular oil changes and new spark plugs every 100k. Bolting a turbo on to virtually any petrol engine will produce the same power with less emmissions and better economy - but the proof will be if they last 10+ years.

Interesting that they couldn't use the newer N52 aluminum-magnesium engine block for the N54B30 because it was not deemed as suitable for turbo-charging but had to revert to the older generation BMW M54B30 engine - all aluminum with cast iron cylinder liners. More HERE
Hers: Z4 2.0i Sp --------------------- His: Z3 2.8
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

You tell him bill :D

Non turbo v8, v10 for me
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by Badman gee »

It's still a hairdressers car Tim, they all are!
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c_w
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by c_w »

Have to say the current Z4 is a awesome looking car, it looks a more expensive/upmarket car than the outgoing z4 (and the z3 it replaced). Has amazing presence on the road.

The older z3 arguably looks more aggressive at the rear but the facelift looks good too. But the only Z3 to have is the Z3M Coupe :P
swamper
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by swamper »

c_w wrote: But the only Z3 to have is the Z3M Coupe :P
pfttt based on the M roadster :D
the badness makes me do it...!

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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

Zed Carer wrote:
The engine is only one part of the equation and some would say not a vital part as a decent engine with rubbish suspension does not make a good car but glad that you are happy with it
Yepp, very happy with my E89 thanks, handles like a dream, I think the proof of the pudding is through ownership, for which you don't :wink:

Trade up and then let me know when slightly more qualified to comment :wink: :lol:.......only joking as I know you won't!!

Tim.
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Re: Interesting eBay ad

Post by TitanTim »

c_w wrote:Have to say the current Z4 is a awesome looking car, it looks a more expensive/upmarket car than the outgoing z4 (and the z3 it replaced). Has amazing presence on the road.

The older z3 arguably looks more aggressive at the rear but the facelift looks good too. But the only Z3 to have is the Z3M Coupe :P
More I look at Z3M Coupe more I would have one over the ragtop :thumb:

Tim.
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