Judder after driving through a puddle

wonderloaf · Post by **wonderloaf** » Mon 23 Feb, 2015 12:41

This morning on the way to work had to drive through a shallow puddle (probably 2-3 inches deep) which was pretty uneventful, until I had to do a standing start at the next road junction, when the car started to judder. This is not unusual as it has always happened since I got the car a few years ago, it's just this morning was a little worse than usual. Normally I only get the judder when pulling away from the first time, but this morning it carried on for a couple more stop/starts. After that all is back to normal. It feels as though the clutch is slipping but assume that the clutch housing is sealed so water shouldn't be getting in there (?). As I came out of the puddle I also noticed a short screech (sounded like a belt slipping) could this be causing the problem?

I'm not particularly worried as the issue always seems to resolve itself, just wondered if this common amongst us Z'ers, does anyone else have this problem....should I be worried?

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Mon 23 Feb, 2015 12:54

.....yes, be worried...your description sounds just like the clutch needs replacement.... and if you heard noises, then do it sooner rather than later.

wonderloaf · Post by **wonderloaf** » Mon 23 Feb, 2015 17:30

OK now I'm worried, will talk to my usual garage about replacing the clutch ... does anybody have any other recommendations around the Basingstoke area?
Think this month is going to be expensive as I need an Inspection 2 + fluid change, some suspension work done, and now maybe (ie probably) this ....

Still Spring is on the way and it'll soon be time for top-down motoring ...

mwpe · Post by **mwpe** » Mon 23 Feb, 2015 22:38

If I have something that I do not want to handle myself, I use Kings in South Warnborough, They sorted an elusive problem on my E46 3251i which the main dealer couldn't find. and are very friendly and reasonably priced.

wonderloaf · Post by **wonderloaf** » Tue 24 Feb, 2015 08:05

mwpe wrote:If I have something that I do not want to handle myself, I use Kings in South Warnborough, They sorted an elusive problem on my E46 3251i which the main dealer couldn't find. and are very friendly and reasonably priced.

Thanks for the recommendation I'll bear them in mind, it's good to know of any indies locally that can fix my rapidly ageing car for a reasonable price!

Went through the same puddle this morning although it's not quite so deep, (only an inch or so) and didn't get any judder, just a squeal as though a belt was slipping, could this be connected to the juddering problem?

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Tue 24 Feb, 2015 08:16

You might have a look at the drive belts and the belt tensioner first before you head off to the clutch.... You may have a belt tensioner which is worn and may be squealing when it gets wet, or may even be locking up and causing the belt to squeal as it is forced over the tensioner pulley. (The belts are ribbed in line with the rotation direction, so they can slip on the pulleys they drive) There are two belt tensioners and two belts (if you have an aircon compressor pump). Easy enough to access them.... You could start up the motor, and view them in operation - perhaps even give them a little squirt of lube without getting any on the belts though. If they need replacement, you may as well do the belts at the same time. Both items (belts and tensioners) are available from a Meyle stockist and are top quality at about 1/2 the price of BMW OEM parts. They are an easy DIY project, but may require the draining and removal of the radiator and fan to access the securing bolts and fit the new belts.
Another item to check in that same area is the water pump pulley. If that shaft bearing is worn or faulty it could also cause the noises you are hearing.... And finally, brakes could also be the culprits - especially the rear hand brake shoes which are inside the drums. If they are faulty they may be causing a problem when they get wet..... sorry to deal you so many options, but they are all strong possibilities which may be affected by a splash of water going through a puddle, and are at least manageable as a DIY before you go off to have a clutch replacement.

Link to realoem digram
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/q/k/11.png

Further link to other belt
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/h/i/29.png

Link to rear hand brake diagram
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/p/q/38.png

Link to water pump diagram
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/x/z/224.png

wonderloaf · Post by **wonderloaf** » Tue 24 Feb, 2015 11:43

Hi Southernboy, many thanks for taking the time to get all this info down, much appreciated. After going through the shallower puddle this morning I'm certain that the noise I heard was down to a belt squealing, which I also occasionally get when I first start the car up in the morning (worse on cold mornings), so will look at belts/tensioners first before considering any other avenues of investigation. Hopefully this will be the problem as it will be a whole lot cheaper than a new clutch!

So guess I'm going to be under the car this weekend (in the rain probably), I'll let you know what I find.

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Tue 24 Feb, 2015 12:01

To examine the belts, it's best done from the top. Remove the air filter housing, the radiator cowling and then the fan (The fan is a "left hand thread" - ie it'll screw off in the same direction as one would usually screw something on).
Once you have those items out the way, you will have clear view and access to belts and tensioner pulleys as well as the water pump pulley etc etc...

If you remove the belts first, it'll allow you to then check the 2 belt tensioning pulleys. They free-wheel, so easy to turn by hand. They are "sprung" so that they apply pressure to the belts to keep the belts taut onto all the drive pulleys. I would imagine you will find one of the two tensioners is faulty, and no longer doing it's job adequately. The belts can be checked by gently bending them in reverse to the way they fold over the pulleys...if there are multiple cracks in the ribbing, replace them... Might be advisable to replace them anyhow, since you'll be removing them - You shouldn't pay more than £30 - £40 for the pair if you can find a Meyle stockist, and since you will have stripped out all the parts mentioned above to get in there, perhaps it may be wise to at least have costed the tensioners and be able to run out to pick up a set.
From under the car you will struggle to reach in there, also, the under car tray / trim will need to be removed. You may well not need to remove the radiator working from the top.

wonderloaf · Post by **wonderloaf** » Tue 24 Feb, 2015 12:19

Southernboy wrote:To examine the belts, it's best done from the top. Remove the air filter housing, the radiator cowling and then the fan (The fan is a "left hand thread" - ie it'll screw off in the same direction as one would usually screw something on).
Once you have those items out the way, you will have clear view and access to belts and tensioner pulleys as well as the water pump pulley etc etc...
If you remove the belts first, it'll allow you to then check the 2 belt tensioning pulleys. They free-wheel, so easy to turn by hand. They are "sprung" so that they apply pressure to the belts to keep the belts taut onto all the drive pulleys. I would imagine you will find one of the two tensioners is faulty, and no longer doing it's job adequately. The belts can be checked by gently bending them in reverse to the way they fold over the pulleys...if there are multiple cracks in the ribbing, replace them... Might be advisable to replace them anyhow, since you'll be removing them - You shouldn't pay more than £30 - £40 for the pair if you can find a Meyle stockist, and since you will have stripped out all the parts mentioned above to get in there, perhaps it may be wise to at least have costed the tensioners and be able to run out to pick up a set.
From under the car you will struggle to reach in there, also, the under car tray / trim will need to be removed. You may well not need to remove the radiator working from the top.

Good news that I won't have to get under the car as I'm not getting any younger and crawling around on the floor plays havoc with my back!

Joycey · Post by **Joycey** » Tue 24 Feb, 2015 12:37

@wonderloaf I also live in basingstoke and replaced my clutch a few months back. If i had to use anywhere in basingstoke the last place I used was Mr Clutch up on danes hill. Its also even cheaper if you buy your own clutch.

Personally I wouldnt say the clutch is at fault.

Lee

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Wed 25 Feb, 2015 10:37

My daughter had a similar problem after driving her E46 through an unexpectedly deep puddle, the answer being that the rubber intake elbow had split, and admitted water, which entered number 5 cylinder and caused a bent connecting rod. She was about to sell it before moving to New Zealand, but luckily her insurer treated it as 'Flood damage' and wrote off the car.

wonderloaf · Post by **wonderloaf** » Wed 25 Feb, 2015 12:08

Mike Fishwick wrote:My daughter had a similar problem after driving her E46 through an unexpectedly deep puddle, the answer being that the rubber intake elbow had split, and admitted water, which entered number 5 cylinder and caused a bent connecting rod. She was about to sell it before moving to New Zealand, but luckily her insurer treated it as 'Flood damage' and wrote off the car.

hope it's not that bad! If my con rod was bent wouldn't the problem be present all the time, rather than just temporary?

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