Heater core/matrix?

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Koolflyer
Joined: Fri 05 Jul, 2013 15:51
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Heater core/matrix?

Post by Koolflyer »

My 2.8 roadster has been undercover for the winter months and the carpet was bone dry, in fact doesn't have a history of water getting in through the roof or usual windscreen (lucky chap I hear you say). However, I took it for a good run the other day and parked nose up into the driveway and found water draining rearwards under the carpet and collecting in the lowest point under the drivers seat only! I had had the heating on full as it was was a bit nippy. The water tasted slightly sweet and also have noticed that the coolant level to be down. My obvious suspicion is the heater core/matrix so I guess I'll have to get it out and see whats going on behind the dash.

Anyone experienced this before or similar symptoms? :rtm: Thanks KF
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1997 Z3 2.8 (M52) Roadster Montreal blue
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kjb1
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by kjb1 »

it would take a LOT of water from heater to find its way out as the carpets absorb A LOT of water!!!! carpets always feel dry on top, only underneath are they wet. I suspect you have had a water leak without ever knowing it.


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Southernboy
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
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Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Southernboy »

Perhaps the first place to check are the inlet and outlet rubber pipes which allow water from the motor to flow through the matrix. They pass through the bulkhead at the top left (passenger side) of the car on my car. I have had both these replaced a couple of years ago when one of them split - fortunately on the engine side of the bulkhead. If you remove the console and feel around the rear of the matrix, you can determine by any wetness if that may be the cause, or if the matrix is even the possible source.
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Koolflyer
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Koolflyer »

Hi kjb1 and Barry thanks for your inputs. Well I stripped the centre consol out again plus the passenger side glove compartment and bits. Then drained the coolant allowing me to carefully remove the matrix. There was no sign of water/coolant around the carpet underneath the heater box or within the heater box. No signs of any leaks or stains on the matrix itself either. I took it to the Leicester Radiators where the guy tested it with 200 psi and not a sign of any leak......which although is good is also a bit of a bugger too! As you mentioned Barry, both the connections and the two hoses are in good condition and no signs of any leaks. As a matter of interest are both on the passenger side so any leak would have shown itself on the passenger side I would have thought.

It does all seem very odd especially as the coolant level had gone down, but one other original lead I haven't mentioned was that the drivers washer had stopped working over the winter lay up and was leaking water into the engine compartment, however I was quickly on to this and replaced both the washer valves (L&R) which lie between the bonnet lid and the sound proofing under lay. Anyway how can that get into the car? Must admit it too was rather coincidental?? :-?

I can't really see else there is :shrug :shrug
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bentley-boy
Joined: Mon 28 Oct, 2013 19:35
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Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by bentley-boy »

Is the rear parcel shelf trim wet? Parking nose up prevents water that runs off the hood from running out through the drains since these drains are located near the 'B' post where the hood frame is anchored. Water will collect and sit at the base of the rear window since the drains are higher up if parking uphill. Loss of coolant could be from elsewhere and what you are experiencing as wet under the carpets could just be rain water tainted (taste wise) with whatever is lurking in the carpets after 18 years.
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Southernboy
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Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Southernboy »

Dare I say you may soon be liable for a "sugar tax" for the "sweet" water you have in your car... :lol:
On a serious note, the windows are most common ingress points as Bentley-boy suggested. My car is always parked in an enclosed garage with a level floor, so I can't comment on the parking angle issue as he explained.
If you still have the console etc removed, perhaps check the seal around the wiring harness from the distribution / fuse box through the bulkhead as well as those on the driver side behind the pedals. I have not heard of them leaking, but worth checking whilst you have the chance. If you have a look on realOEM under "Body" and then scroll down to "Splash wall parts", you will see the number and location of the "holes" which are used for the various components to pass from the engine bay into the cockpit of the car. There are some fairly large ones, particularly behind the glove box area.
I assume you are sure of the roof to windscreen seal integrity ? You would be aware of any leak there by wind noise even when driving in dry weather I guess. Have you ever had the fitted carpets out ? May find a hole in the floor could explain it. Perhaps have the car lifted at all 4 corners and get under with a good light to do the check - easier than removing carpets. Finally, have a good look around the periphery of the windscreen sealing rubber for any possible signs of potential leaks.
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Koolflyer
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Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Koolflyer »

Dare I say you may soon be liable for a "sugar tax" for the "sweet" water you have in your car... :lol:
........shhh! the sugar man will be after me!

Cheers Barrie and Adrian for that and sorry for the delay. Matrix back and tested and new washer valves, car parked up hill in heavy shower and then down hill in heavy shower without using the washers. Carpet back to normal as dry as a bone! Both matrix pipes dry with no leaks...these are on the passenger side (Left) which was not the side in question. Car warmed up and ran to expel any air blocks, temp in the 12 o'clock as normal and still no leaks. Washers now run and no leaks either?? I still suspect the rear hood pillar as you said, or perhaps it was the drivers washer valve which had failed, after all that pump does push out a lot of water. I will check those bulkhead entry exit points too Barrie......kind of a mystery :rtm: :shrug
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Southernboy
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Southernboy »

Pleased to hear the carpets are now dry and the leak seems to have been sorted - somehow. You should consider the possibility of a very small leak which over the span of a summer allows water to accumulate to a noticeable level. If it only allows 50ml in at a time you may not notice any wetness as it'll filter to the floor and be suspended in the under carpet foam rubber. Perhaps it may be practical to sit inside the car whilst an assistant puts a hose onto the car as if the car was being washed so you can observe any few drops which possibly get in past the top of the door / window, or under the dash areas. Also, check the seating of the door mirrors to the body that they are firmly tightened and water proof, as well as the small rubber gaskets around the outer door opening handles. Have a really close look at the seal to window strip on the outside at the top of the door to ensure it is flush against the glass with the window in the closed position, as well as the seal to the small triangular window and the body especially where the vertical post goes into the door. It may be useful to remove the door card after a rainy day to check if there is any water on the inside of the door at the bottom, and that the drain holes are clear to allow any water to escape. If there is any wet in there, you will need to find the leak and sort it. The rubber strip which caps the top of the small triangular window and forms the channel for the main window sometimes comes away from the sharp top point of the triangular window, and water tends to be pushed upwards at that point whilst driving. This could force water into and through that area under wind pressure during driving in the rain.
Finally, if you lower the main window, check to see if the window is comfortably held between the inner and outer rubber trims at the top of the door. I noticed on my car that it had some play. I remedied this by removing the door card, and then lowering the main glass, and removing the outer rubber strip (it just pulls off). I then used a length of hard wood and a small hammer to evenly tap and bend the outer bare metal edge inwards so it reduced the gap a little. I replaced the rubber seal, and that allowed the outer rubber strip to seat firmly against the glass - it also sorted the little "rattle" when closing the door with the window in the lowered position. Check that when you have the window in the fully lowered position, the top of the glass doesn't go below the top edge of that outer sealing rubber so it is still held between the inner and outer strips. If it does go below the level of the rubber strip, you need to go inside the door and fit a rubber stopper at the bottom of the door, so the winder mechanism bumps against it as it reaches the bottom point of it's travel when fully opened. I had a spare rubber bonnet buffer which I put into my door for just that purpose. Part number 51718407377 (on realOEM.) I just used contact glue to hold it in the correct place inside the bottom of the door. You could probably get one from Spurs fan in a coupe - Andy... :wink:
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Koolflyer
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Koolflyer »

Got it, the 2016 mystery is hopefully sorted!

After first suspecting the roof, then the u/s drivers washer valve and finally the heater matrix, I turned my attention back to the roof again as everyone here has hinted (kjb1, BB & SB). Last week we had an extremely heavy downpour so sat in the car and monitored. Low and behold the lower corner of the rear window right behind my head, which to be fair is a bit of a neck breaker, water was pouring in streaming down the hood compartment and down behind my seat! So I had the center console out, the passenger lower dash out to remove the matrix! Oh well it kept me out of trouble and I know the matrix is in good condition, after all it is my tinkering car!
I was going to have a new top anyway, so she's booked in with Dee at Soft Tops of Croydon next week, so hopefully all ship shape for the BMW parade lap at Donny Park the following weekend.

Tks guys Pete
KF
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kjb1
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by kjb1 »

if you use superglue in corner of window from the inside it cures it, literally on the screen part


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kjb1
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Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by kjb1 »

just to prevent any more water getting in til new roof,


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Koolflyer
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Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Koolflyer »

Thanks kjb1, I've already sealed it with a nice double layer of clear silicone sealant, more than I would have normally used but it's only got to last another week. Will take the seat out on the next sunny day (perhaps tomorrow) and dry out the thick underlay.
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kjb1
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by kjb1 »

Koolflyer wrote:Thanks kjb1, I've already sealed it with a nice double layer of clear silicone sealant, more than I would have normally used but it's only got to last another week. Will take the seat out on the next sunny day (perhaps tomorrow) and dry out the thick underlay.
how much have they quoted you out of interest?


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Koolflyer
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Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Koolflyer »

Last April Del paid £325 fitted, two months ago I was quoted £375 but now it's £395. Bit of a jump but apparently it's up by £20 due to seasonal demand. It's a business at the end of the day. You can pay a lot more but Soft Tops seem to have a really good reputation.
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kjb1
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by kjb1 »

Koolflyer wrote:Last April Del paid £325 fitted, two months ago I was quoted £375 but now it's £395. Bit of a jump but apparently it's up by £20 due to seasonal demand. It's a business at the end of the day. You can pay a lot more but Soft Tops seem to have a really good reputation.
£325 is crazy cheap!!!

£395 still good.

Its annoying I live so far away.


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Koolflyer
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Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Koolflyer »

They use a mohair vinyl virtually the same as the OEM top imported from an American company Haatz. Dee at Soft Tops suggested I check their website out first to check the colours and specs. He then makes the top to order as opposed to buying them in, so keeping the cost down.
I sure he won't mind, but gookah and Del are both very keen Zed contributors on this site, and both really do rate this guy well.
Could be well worth the cruise over to Croydon.
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Del
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Del »

Another common intermittent cause of leaks coming from "the front somewhere" are the scuttle drains. They get gradually blocked with silt over the years and start to become a problem (by overflowing into the car) during heavy rain when they can't drain fast enough.
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Koolflyer
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Re: Heater core/matrix?

Post by Koolflyer »

I will check those too..tks
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1997 Z3 2.8 (M52) Roadster Montreal blue
2013 330d (F31) M Sport Alpine White
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