Windscreen woes

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mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 795

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 17:03

I broke my screen 2 weeks ago. I've been determined to get an OEM replacement.

Initially I tried doing it through the main dealer which in theory should just have been an extra £25 excess. But they weren't interested in talking to the insurer.

Then I tried Autoglass insisting it was OEM glass. They said it would need insurer approval. Which has taken 2 weeks and they said no.

Anyhow, Autoglass and an independent in Swindon are both adamant the 3rd party glass they use comes off the same production line and is different to the OEM version only because it doesn't have a BMW stamp.

Do we think that's true? Would anyone know if I'd still get the black band round the outside as well?

Thanks.
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

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BladeRunner919
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by BladeRunner919 » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 17:09

I can't imagine that BMW make glass, so it seems reasonable to assume that they would come from the same place. Bonded windscreens all have a black band because that's where the adhesive goes - if it was clear it would look a right mess. I had a replacement put in by National Windscreens and it was a Pilkington windscreen, which I believe the originals were.

RobTFC
Joined: Mon 29 Dec, 2014 14:23
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by RobTFC » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 20:24

Not really an issue for the Z3 but when I had Autoglass replace my windscreen on a 1 series a few years back I raised the same question and they said something similar - that the glass was from the same factory as the BMW branded stuff. I let them do the work but the sensor for the automatic wipers seemed odd, like it wasn't sensitive enough. I took it back but the guys at Autoglass simply "proved" it still worked by spraying water directly on the sensor (which of course worked despite it being less sensitive) thus making it a difficult argument.

I took it to the dealer to be checked (not telling them about the glass change initially to get a fair assessment) and they identified the glass (the bit that works with the sensor wasn't as good in their opinion) and agreed with me, and made some adjustments FOC to try and compensate - it was improved but still not as good as it was. I was tempted to get a note from a mechanic at the dealer to show Autoglass but I'd had enough by then. Oh and months later I identified a very slight dent in the roof just above the windscreen which was not there before (it was a brand new car!!)

Since that experience I don't really trust this "it's just same" stuff. I suspect there's some technicality that makes this statement true to a degree, but they have clearly identified this is a cause for concern for some customers and have been told to throw that line out to quell any doubts.

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Thu 28 Apr, 2016 21:33

Well even if National/Autoglass use product from the same production line as the OEM item I don't think it would necessarily be from the original build manufacturer. I checked tonight and both my Z3s say PPG which is Pittsburgh Plate Glass. I'm guessing as a replacement part these would be made in Europe possibly by Pilkington.
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

William P
Joined: Wed 17 Jun, 2015 11:36
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by William P » Fri 29 Apr, 2016 10:01

I work for Pilkington and we make glass for the OE market and the aftermarket. We have manufacturing facilities all the world so a 'Pilkington' glass sold in Europe could come from Europe, North America, South America etc. We can only include the Car Manufactures logo when we supply it as OE or to the dealer network, the difference in the glass is just the artwork on the glass.

The original supplier for the Z3 would probably be PPG as it is a US manufacturer and the only way to get OE glass would probably from the US.

We sell aftermarket glass via our AGR business and have a distribution center at Redditch which we will supply to the likes of Autoglass but they will also by from other sources which the quality may not be as good, so the statement that they are all made from the production line is not true, in fact we can switch manufacture to a different production facility depending on volume and loading.

For quality I would recommend 'Pilkington' :wink: or one of our competitors such as Saint Gobain Sekurit or Asahi.

mrscalex
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Fri 29 Apr, 2016 10:22

Very useful William! Thank you.
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

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lightning
Joined: Tue 27 Nov, 2007 08:15
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Stockport

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by lightning » Fri 29 Apr, 2016 21:51

When l had Autoglass replace the screen on my van l asked for OE glass. I was told the same, that it was "the same except for the maker's name"

They fitted the new screen and after that the van got a lot hotter inside when the sun shone on it. The original glass had some sort of reflective coating, not present on the new one.

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Sat 07 May, 2016 08:48

Windscreen finally done yesterday. Having been promised an OE spec screen off the same production line as a BMW part a Safevue brand was fitted.

I'm struggling to find anything about this brand but the little I can find suggests it is not OE spec.

Does anyone know anything of Safevue?
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

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colb
Joined: Sat 05 May, 2012 23:46
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  Z3 roadster 1.8 TU
Location: Newport South Wales UK

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by colb » Sat 07 May, 2016 09:16

From searching on the web I found that Safevue is made by Pilkington Glass in South Africa.

http://www.pgglass.co.za/safevue-windscreens/
Colb
1999 BMW 1.8 Z3
1998 Honda Deauville NT650V

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kjb1
Joined: Thu 04 Feb, 2016 11:12
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by kjb1 » Sat 07 May, 2016 09:24

mrscalex wrote:Windscreen finally done yesterday. Having been promised an OE spec screen off the same production line as a BMW part a Safevue brand was fitted.

I'm struggling to find anything about this brand but the little I can find suggests it is not OE spec.

Does anyone know anything of Safevue?
How is the screen? is it a good fit overall? water tight?

i would love a new screen mine is terrible in low sun set light levels.

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 795

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Sat 07 May, 2016 11:11

colb wrote:From searching on the web I found that Safevue is made by Pilkington Glass in South Africa.

http://www.pgglass.co.za/safevue-windscreens/
Indeed. But if you scroll down you'll see that it is not OE spec and they even have a table showing the differences which are numerous.
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 795

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Sat 07 May, 2016 11:21

kjb1 wrote:
mrscalex wrote:How is the screen? is it a good fit overall? water tight?

i would love a new screen mine is terrible in low sun set light levels.
The advice is not to drive for 1 hour. And not to have it on lifts (chassis>screen flex) for 24 hours. Didn't know that and it was due an MOT that afternoon I had to postpone! So I took the safe option and won't be driving or testing it for the full 24 hours.

It looks the part though and the fitting was neat.

The business with the type of screen wouldn't have been so bad if we were oblivious to the issue and hadn't enquired beforehand. But the fact is we checked and were told it would be OE spec off the same production line. It very clearly isn't and the advertising blurb makes no secret of it being a budget option.

Point of note though. The guy had to smash the old windscreen to get it out as he said the factory glue bond is so strong. If true that would exclude reusing an original screen.
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

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Mike
Joined: Wed 14 Apr, 2004 11:53
Posts: 283

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: la Gacilly, France
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Re: Windscreen woes

Post by Mike » Sat 07 May, 2016 22:34

I changed my winscreen some years ago now for MOT reasons. Autoglass came with an aftermarket screen that was not bent enough to fit correctly. The top corners were very proud rather than snug. Credit to the guy who fitted it as he said they had a tendency to be like this. I obviously rejected the screen. The guy said to leave it with him and returned later that afternoon with an OEM screen from BMW. It just popped in and fitted perfectly. Lesson learnt - do not go for aftermarket screens and doublecheck the fitting. Be prepared to reject the screen if it does not fit to your requirements.

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 795

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Sat 07 May, 2016 23:14

Mike wrote:I changed my winscreen some years ago now for MOT reasons. Autoglass came with an aftermarket screen that was not bent enough to fit correctly. The top corners were very proud rather than snug. Credit to the guy who fitted it as he said they had a tendency to be like this. I obviously rejected the screen. The guy said to leave it with him and returned later that afternoon with an OEM screen from BMW. It just popped in and fitted perfectly. Lesson learnt - do not go for aftermarket screens and doublecheck the fitting. Be prepared to reject the screen if it does not fit to your requirements.
The problem I think is it's not Autoglass's business to determine the type of windscreen. It's the insurers and they wouldn't pay for a BMW one as we asked. But Autoglass said it would be OE spec from the same production line which we would have been happy with. It wasn't true. So we took Autoglass's word for something it wasn't their place to make a commitment on - it was the insurer's. We've complained to the insurers but needless to say they will just point out it wasn't them who promised the type of screen and the policy makes no commitment on the type of screen.

I think the best advice is don't break your windscreen. Failing that find an insurance policy that guarantees OEM parts.
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

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lightning
Joined: Tue 27 Nov, 2007 08:15
Posts: 814

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Stockport

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by lightning » Sat 30 Jul, 2016 19:04

My windscreen needs replacing and l contacted BMW for a quote, which was £450+VAT.

Then l contacted my insurance company (Classicline) and they said they were fine with that, except that the excess would be £125 instead of £70.

Also l would have to pay for the work and then send them the invoice.
So at least l can get a genuine BMW screen, fitted by BMW, which is what l wanted.

I once had one of the major windscreen replacement companies replace the screen on my Renault van, they insisted that the new glass was "the same except for the Renault label"
However after that the van was much hotter inside on sunny days (than it was with the OE Renault glass)

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lightning
Joined: Tue 27 Nov, 2007 08:15
Posts: 814

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Stockport

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by lightning » Mon 08 Aug, 2016 21:19

Well, l took it in to BMW last Wednesday for a new windscreen, said they'd need it overnight "for the bonding to dry"
Then on Thursday they called to say that the surround needed replacing (l assume they meant the rubber seal) and it would be done by Friday.

So it's Monday evening and l've heard nothing! Maybe they crashed it lol more likely the "surround" was out of stock? I know l could call them to find out but l think l will just leave them to it.

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Mon 08 Aug, 2016 21:39

That was an option open to us but Dick Lovett BMW wanted about £800 I think and I didn't fancy putting that much money up and have the risk of not getting it back (trust no one).

The insurance company agreed to replace the non-OEM spec screen they fitted with OEM spec, in fact we think it was going to be BMW. And guess what? After a 2 month wait they turned up with the identical non-OEM spec screen! Needless to say it wasn't fitted. That was a month ago and still we await the 3rd attempt!
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

gookah
Z Register member
Joined: Thu 07 Aug, 2008 10:51
Posts: 2725

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by gookah » Mon 08 Aug, 2016 23:20

What's all this fuss over a windscreen?

Autoglass fitted a new screen to my Zed about a year ago, at work.
had to leave it for 1 hour.
It fits fine. it doesn't leak, it doesn't make the car hot and I can see through it a lot better than the chipped old one..


Don't forget, make sure you only use BMW screen wash with your OEM replacement screens, your warranty could be at risk.. :wink:
Image

Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 795

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Tue 09 Aug, 2016 13:42

gookah wrote:What's all this fuss over a windscreen?

Autoglass fitted a new screen to my Zed about a year ago, at work.
had to leave it for 1 hour.
It fits fine. it doesn't leak, it doesn't make the car hot and I can see through it a lot better than the chipped old one..


Don't forget, make sure you only use BMW screen wash with your OEM replacement screens, your warranty could be at risk.. :wink:
Let's compare notes again when we have both managed to roll our respective cars :lol: I'd expect a BMW screen to have more chance of helping out than a Safevue screen.
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

gookah
Z Register member
Joined: Thu 07 Aug, 2008 10:51
Posts: 2725

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by gookah » Tue 09 Aug, 2016 14:56

mrscalex wrote:
gookah wrote:What's all this fuss over a windscreen?

Autoglass fitted a new screen to my Zed about a year ago, at work.
had to leave it for 1 hour.
It fits fine. it doesn't leak, it doesn't make the car hot and I can see through it a lot better than the chipped old one..


Don't forget, make sure you only use BMW screen wash with your OEM replacement screens, your warranty could be at risk.. :wink:
Let's compare notes again when we have both managed to roll our respective cars :lol: I'd expect a BMW screen to have more chance of helping out than a Safevue screen.
Well there is no definitive proof of that, however I know that when I tried putting my interior mirror back on the genuine BMW one, it cracked it as I pushed the mirror onto its ball joint.
the new one didnt suffer the same fate,
OEM doesn't necessarily mean better as BMW would have us believe. Check out BMW springs, water pumps, alloy wheels etc etc.
I am glad to have replaced a few of those.






:?
Image

Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 795

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by mrscalex » Tue 09 Aug, 2016 15:34

Don't know practical differences for sure and I hope none of us ever find out.

But spec wise you can see a comparison here between Safevue and OE Spec, BMW spec may be same or higher still:

http://www.pgglass.co.za/safevue-windscreens/
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2119

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Windscreen woes

Post by Del » Tue 09 Aug, 2016 22:34

Don't forget the Z3 involves 20+ year old technology. The specs for some of the engine oils recommended in my handbook are now obsolete :)

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