Vanos fix

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Robin
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Vanos fix

Post by Robin »

I am looking at buying an M// roadster. Naturally I'm concerned about the reliability of the Vanos unit as it's an S50.
I rang Scotthall & they said the mod to avoid Vanos falure involved nothing more than a simple 15 minute job of fitting longer bolts on the Vanos unit ! The original short ones tended to sheer off leading to an oil leak & Vanos failure & a £2000+ repair bill if not under warranty.
It's quite surprising that such a serious issue about which there are so many Chinese whispers, is so easy to remedy if true. I'm surprised !
The car I'm looking at has had this mod.
Kind of makes an S50 a lot more appealing once the Vanos worry is removed.
Bearing this in mind I'm not sure whether it's worth spending £550 to extend the warranty for 12 months ?
Any suggestions appreciated.
cheers
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Giles
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Re: Vanos fix

Post by Giles »

Robin wrote:I rang Scotthall & they said the mod to avoid Vanos failure involved nothing more than a simple 15 minute job of fitting longer bolts on the Vanos unit ! The original short ones tended to sheer off leading to an oil leak & Vanos failure & a £2000+ repair bill if not under warranty.
That information is indeed correct Robin, althougth the Vanos can fail for other reasons.
Robin wrote: Bearing this in mind I'm not sure whether it's worth spending £550 to extend the warranty for 12 months ?
:? I think in the past you have been keen to point out the various 'problems' (not just Vanos) with owning an M, I'd of thought therefore that this would have been a no-brain decision for you!!!!!

I'd extend BMW warranty everytime, no question. Remember if you let it lapse, you'll never be able to revoke it.
Robin wrote: ...there are so many Chinese whispers...
Finally I can't resist - let he who hath no sin, cast the first stone :shock:
Last edited by Giles on Tue 10 Aug, 2004 13:48, edited 1 time in total.
321bhp
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hi

Post by 321bhp »

hi,my vanos gears needed replacing last year,as no warranty with bmw they relpaced vanos as a goodwill,but i paid half £550 total price including vat was £1,250 ,the longer bolts had already been done 8 months previous by another owner,so just because its had the bolts replaced,dosent really solve the problem in some cars,but i did notice a differance driving it after it had been done,more responsive and that alfull ticking noise had gone :D :D
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Robin
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Post by Robin »

321 & Giles thanks. I'll extend the warranty in that case. My skepticism about the longer bolts completely mitigating the risk is not unfounded then. Oops sorry, am I'm indulging in Chinese whispers again :lol:

Had the long bolts been a 100% solution to Vanos problem & if the spun bearings only occur on the S54 then £550 on a warranty might have been questionable. So not really a no brainer. That was why I posed the question.
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Big Mr P
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Post by Big Mr P »

Just out of interest did you know there is a small filter fitted in the vanos unit, this filter I remove and clean about every 3000 miles. Filters are there to catch foreign bodies, dirty filters reduce flow and pressure which have there own knock on effects

I consider myself to be a specialist in hydraulics with over 30 years of experience in the Aircraft Industry and systems with clean oil at the correct pressure should last unless there are built in manufactured faults. My car has 40,000 on the clock and still pulling like a dream. (touch wood).
Graham,
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Robin
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Post by Robin »

Big Mr P, The one I'm looking at tomorrow has 37k on the clock so should be OK for at least another 3k miles then :lol:
Seriously though, have I noted your advice about filter cleaning thanks.
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AndyBass
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Post by AndyBass »

Big Mr P. I'm glad you raised the issue of the filter in the vanos system and have wondered for a while if this gets attention when the car is serviced by BMW. Where is it on the engine please and are there any special tools needed to remove it for cleaning. I have a pretty good mechanical knowledge and am confident that this is a job I can handle easily. Thanks. Andy. PS. My car is a 2000 2.8, with double vanos, 31,000 miles.
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'MC' MarkC
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Re: Vanos fix

Post by 'MC' MarkC »

Robin wrote:I rang Scotthall & they said the mod to avoid Vanos falure involved nothing more than a simple 15 minute job of fitting longer bolts on the Vanos unit !
Complete and utter tosh :!: The bolts on mine were replaced last October, Vanos failed in June.
ACS susp., exhaust, wheels, short-shift +decat (Supersprint)+CF intake with K&N, remapped ECU, Strong-strutt. Piranha carbon-metallic clutch, EBC Grooved & Dimpled+Redstuff Ceramics. ACS pedals, gearknob & handbrake, stick-on plates.
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Post by 'MC' MarkC »

Big Mr P wrote:Just out of interest did you know there is a small filter fitted in the vanos unit, this filter I remove and clean about every 3000 miles.
More info please :!::!:
ACS susp., exhaust, wheels, short-shift +decat (Supersprint)+CF intake with K&N, remapped ECU, Strong-strutt. Piranha carbon-metallic clutch, EBC Grooved & Dimpled+Redstuff Ceramics. ACS pedals, gearknob & handbrake, stick-on plates.
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Robin
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Post by Robin »

mbmwx, I don't know why the dealer said the longer Vanos bolts solve the problem when it doesn't entirely. That's why there are Chinese Whispers.
If the problem really was solved with the S54 then I would like to know if that improvement/mod can also be done on an S50.
Last edited by Robin on Fri 20 Aug, 2004 10:28, edited 1 time in total.
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'MC' MarkC
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Post by 'MC' MarkC »

As I understand it, the replacement Vanos units they have been using are, and have been for some time now, improved units which shouldn't fall foul of the known design faults. This makes sense, as BMW obviously wouldn't want to continue replacing these items under warranty/good will, as it would eventually erase any profit made from the selling/servicing of the cars :!:
I certainly hope this is the case :!:
ACS susp., exhaust, wheels, short-shift +decat (Supersprint)+CF intake with K&N, remapped ECU, Strong-strutt. Piranha carbon-metallic clutch, EBC Grooved & Dimpled+Redstuff Ceramics. ACS pedals, gearknob & handbrake, stick-on plates.
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Robin
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Post by Robin »

mbmwx In that case I'll extend the warranty.
Last edited by Robin on Fri 20 Aug, 2004 10:32, edited 1 time in total.
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'MC' MarkC
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Post by 'MC' MarkC »

IMO, a wise choice.

Mark.
ACS susp., exhaust, wheels, short-shift +decat (Supersprint)+CF intake with K&N, remapped ECU, Strong-strutt. Piranha carbon-metallic clutch, EBC Grooved & Dimpled+Redstuff Ceramics. ACS pedals, gearknob & handbrake, stick-on plates.
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Big Mr P
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Post by Big Mr P »

AndyBass wrote:Big Mr P. I'm glad you raised the issue of the filter in the vanos system and have wondered for a while if this gets attention when the car is serviced by BMW. Where is it on the engine please and are there any special tools needed to remove it for cleaning.
Tools. 5mm Allen key, Cleaning spirit (petrol) and soft brush.

for location see pictures.

Remove filter plug and filter will come out with it (don't loose the washer), clean in spirit, use soft brush to remove any stubborn particles if present. Replace filter with washer and plug, tighten ( don't over tighten as alloy is soft). Run the engine for a minute or so to build pressure and then check for leaks.

I had an oil service last week and this filter is not touched. I don't know if it will lengthen the life of the Vanos unit but it can't hurt neither.
Attachments
The white arrow points to the Filter plug.
The white arrow points to the Filter plug.
Vanos Location 1.jpg (7.83 KiB) Viewed 5576 times
This is the filter as it comes out.
This is the filter as it comes out.
Filter.jpg (6.35 KiB) Viewed 5576 times
Graham,
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Surj
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Post by Surj »

Robin,

The bolts issue was to replace the original bolts with those of a higher quality grade as the origs were prone to shearing due to vibration.

This does not (as seen above) the Vanos failure problem. Hopefully you wont have the same issue I had with my S50 M Coupe where I had the gears replaced 3 times and the whole Vanos unit once - no wonder I sold it really (dont worry, I sold it to a stealer :twisted: ).

If you hear a clattering upon idle and under mild acceleration - thats the gears telling you that all is not well. IMO, I would insist that the whole unit is replaced straight away, the gears in my unit would clatter every 3k miles!!).

But fingers crossed this doesn't happen to anyone here.

Surj
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Robin
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Post by Robin »

Hi Surj
Yes it would seem that the longer bolts only deal with one causative factor of Vanos failure.
My M// knocks a little on tickover but then my 2.8 also does & others here say their's does also so I'm not too worried about that.
It's helpful to know from what you say that I need to keep my ears peeled for a clattering noise :nerd: :D
Oh well at least I have a warranty, but if I wind up with the numbers of failures that you did then as I'm not into brand loyalty, I also would change to a 911 or a TVR 5 litre Griffith.
Effortless muscle from that low stressed Rover engine.
Or an NSX after seeing that video !
I think Honda Vtec is more robust.
With all the complications & extra expense of M// servicing & Vanos problems i'm not sure it's worth it as the M// doesn't seem a whole bundle faster than my 2.8 & certainly not 60% more powerful so I'm getting it checked out on Friday.
In it's favour the M// is a beautiful car, handles well, is great fun to drive & didn't cost a hill of money.
Last edited by Robin on Fri 20 Aug, 2004 11:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Phil
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2.8 v M

Post by Phil »

Having switched from a 2.8 to an M I can tell you it is a whole lot faster--for sure --no question. :D
Sapphire black/Imola red and black interior/ red roof/ S54 - the only RHD one made.

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Robin
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Post by Robin »

Phil thanks for that info. Makes me all the more sure I should get a diagnostic check done.
Last edited by Robin on Fri 20 Aug, 2004 10:31, edited 2 times in total.
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Surj
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Post by Surj »

Robin,

Remarkably, with over a million Vtec engines built, apparentyly Honda have NEVER had a failed Vtec. Shame BMW cant say the same about Vanos!! :nerd:

Surj
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Robin
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Post by Robin »

Surj shame also they only fit flat mirrors you'd find in a woman's powder puff :lol:
I nearly copped it changing lanes the other day becuase of that stupid blind spot.
My other half's Rover has nice convex mirrors with a wide field of view & it's blessed with a Honda engine.
What is the matter with BMW ?
'The ultimate driving machine' but they can't get the friggin mirrors right !!!!!!
Last edited by Robin on Fri 20 Aug, 2004 09:56, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Surj »

Always look over your shoulder (I never change lanes without)

:nerd: :nerd: :nerd:
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Post by 'MC' MarkC »

Have just had a call from my dealers, Altwood,Tring. An oil leak is being caused by the washer around the VANOS filter which needs replacing.

They say they will clean the filter too, which suggests, Andy, that they wouldn't have touched it otherwise, and this is an Insp.2 :!:
I have told them just to supply the washer. Thanks for the advice and pics, Big Mr P, couldn't have timed that better :!::D
ACS susp., exhaust, wheels, short-shift +decat (Supersprint)+CF intake with K&N, remapped ECU, Strong-strutt. Piranha carbon-metallic clutch, EBC Grooved & Dimpled+Redstuff Ceramics. ACS pedals, gearknob & handbrake, stick-on plates.
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Robin
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Post by Robin »

Yes a big thanks to Mr Big P for alerting us to this matter. It's clearly something we will need to tend to ourselves when really one would think it should be in the servicing schedule. Mine's in the dealers right now for diagnostic checks & odds & ends. I might ring them.
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Robin
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Post by Robin »

I rang Scothall. They took a look on this site at the diagram then checked the maintenance schedules for that part. They said 'There is no need with synthetic oils to change or inspect the vanos oil filter. The last vanos filter they sold was 14 months ago.'
If anyone here does inspect their filter I would be interested to know if they find it particularly gummed up with junk.
Turns out my vanos exhaust valve sensor is kapput so hence power faltering under acceleration. See other post
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