Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

For the M Powered Z3 derivatives
Post Reply
B1RMA
Joined: Sun 25 Mar, 2012 13:45
Posts: 9

  blank

Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by B1RMA »

Does any member take their Z3m out on trackdays? Someone has commented on first and second gear being a bit 'awkward' is this the case or just an unfounded piece of information that someone has got wrong. If you track your car do you use road tyres.
User avatar
Gazza
Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 20:58
Posts: 9521

  M roadster S54
Location: Romford Essex

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by Gazza »

CW has used his Coupe on Track :wink:

1st to 2nd is a little notchy, can be improved with a gear oil change and upgrade the clutch pipe
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

Z3 S54 M roadster Image, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
ImageImage
B1RMA
Joined: Sun 25 Mar, 2012 13:45
Posts: 9

  blank

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by B1RMA »

Is the notchy nature on both s50 and s54's?
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by pingu »

Would you use 1st gear on a trackday as you don't do standing starts and very, very few corners are slow enough to justify 1st gear?

But, as Gazza said, the change is notchy and can be improved.
Pingu
User avatar
Gazza
Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 20:58
Posts: 9521

  M roadster S54
Location: Romford Essex

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by Gazza »

B1RMA wrote:Is the notchy nature on both s50 and s54's?

Both the same.
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

Z3 S54 M roadster Image, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
ImageImage
B1RMA
Joined: Sun 25 Mar, 2012 13:45
Posts: 9

  blank

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by B1RMA »

Just to clear up the confusion the 1st-2nd gear question was nothing to do with trackdays its a comment someone made about them which I hadn't noticed to date when trying one. I was interested to know if anyone had tried the Yokohama AO8 as I read CW had triple 8's
User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
Posts: 728

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by motco »

I have used my 2.2 roadster on an airfield day and can confirm that first gear is irrelevant. You might use second in chicanes, but mainly it'll be third and fourth. Mine is a Sport so has similar suspension to the 'M' - it was nice and neutral with the ability to balance the car on corners dependent entirely on the throttle. With a mere 170bhp I could hold it on the power, with 340 ish you'll just have to be a bit more careful! Switch off the traction/DSC or the brakes will cook if my son's Z4M is anything to go by. The brakes are the weakness anyway; mine were soft to the floor after a few hot laps and I have fresh fluid in them. Son's Z4M has competition fluid in and his was fine - if munching 75% of a set of Yellow Stuff pads in a day is okay. The airfield in question was Keevil with Motorsport Events. Abingdon is better for my Westfield and Hullavington has such long straights that you'll be pushing 140 before you hit the brakes in an 'M'. Have a good time wherever you go!
Phil
Joined: Sun 09 Mar, 2008 10:43
Posts: 2697

  M roadster S54
Location: Solihull

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by Phil »

Has the 2.2 sport got similar suspension to the M?
Sapphire black/Imola red and black interior/ red roof/ S54 - the only RHD one made.

"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."
User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 16:50
Posts: 4032

  M roadster S50

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by c_w »

Not really though it does have different spring and dampers to the normal. The main difference with the M (apart from the obvious spring and damper and anti roll bars) is the front top mounts significantly alter the suspension geometry giving better steering feel, stability and dynamic camber when turning.

As mentioned I run R888 on track - they really do transform the car though I wouldn't use them on a standard car as the suspension probably won't make the best of them. My car runs lowering springs, more negative camber on the front and thicker anti roll bars. It drives and handles fine on roads tyres but on track the R888s really add the finishing touch to the handling giving more grip everywhere and reduce any inherent understeer in lower speed corners. Having said that I did Oulton Park using my Goodyear F1s are they impressed me [having not run road tyres for ages on track - I was expecting it to be a bit poor but it was pretty good].

I used AMSOIL MTF in my gearbox the gearchange is very good. I know this wasn't meant as a track-related issue, but I don't use 2nd gear in my car though on track never mind 1st hehe. Only track I can think of where I'd used 2nd is the hairpin at Croft.

A pad upgrade is essential. EBC Yellowstuff aren't bad and great on the road too. But for me personally the standard suspension is too soft to push the car on track with confidence. As set of H&R antil roll bars are immense (as are the usual spring and damper upgrades).
Phil
Joined: Sun 09 Mar, 2008 10:43
Posts: 2697

  M roadster S54
Location: Solihull

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by Phil »

Thanks c_w - I was teasing. :oops:
Its like there's a big difference between M-Tech suspension and the M suspension which I suspect is on the Sport mentioned above.
Sapphire black/Imola red and black interior/ red roof/ S54 - the only RHD one made.

"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."
User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 16:50
Posts: 4032

  M roadster S50

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by c_w »

Yes I think so, but the late Sport Z3s it's very hard to identify the differences over the non-m where the M is quite easy wit the different size fromt dampers, top mounts etc.
B1RMA
Joined: Sun 25 Mar, 2012 13:45
Posts: 9

  blank

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by B1RMA »

c_w wrote:Not really though it does have different spring and dampers to the normal. The main difference with the M (apart from the obvious spring and damper and anti roll bars) is the front top mounts significantly alter the suspension geometry giving better steering feel, stability and dynamic camber when turning.

As mentioned I run R888 on track - they really do transform the car though I wouldn't use them on a standard car as the suspension probably won't make the best of them. My car runs lowering springs, more negative camber on the front and thicker anti roll bars. It drives and handles fine on roads tyres but on track the R888s really add the finishing touch to the handling giving more grip everywhere and reduce any inherent understeer in lower speed corners. Having said that I did Oulton Park using my Goodyear F1s are they impressed me [having not run road tyres for ages on track - I was expecting it to be a bit poor but it was pretty good].

I used AMSOIL MTF in my gearbox the gearchange is very good. I know this wasn't meant as a track-related issue, but I don't use 2nd gear in my car though on track never mind 1st hehe. Only track I can think of where I'd used 2nd is the hairpin at Croft.

A pad upgrade is essential. EBC Yellowstuff aren't bad and great on the road too. But for me personally the standard suspension is too soft to push the car on track with confidence. As set of H&R antil roll bars are immense (as are the usual spring and damper upgrades).
Thanks, you have provided a lot of useful information, as I said having used my 400 BHP RX7 for trackdays I know 1st and 2nd gears are not relevant my question was aimed at general driving.
User avatar
whiteminks
Joined: Tue 26 Sep, 2006 09:58
Posts: 2768

  M roadster S54
Location: Lincoln

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by whiteminks »

Never had either my 2.2 sport or my S54 ///M around a track but the handling and the stability on the ///M is worlds apart from my 2.2 which has M tech suspension. ;-)
big cheesy wrote:'I nearly cacked my trolleys till I quickly tuned in'. Yorkshire Cruise 2008.
User avatar
Jonttt
Z Register member
Joined: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 16:32
Posts: 6554

  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by Jonttt »

motco wrote:Mine is a Sport so has similar suspension to the 'M'
:nono It couldn't really be much more different lol
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
Image Video or Journal Garage: 2015 FFRR Black Edition, Porsche Boxster GTS, 1997 Porsche Carrara C4S, Ex 2001 BMW S54 Z3m Roadster
z3mcoupe999
Joined: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 15:34
Posts: 55

  M coupe S50
Location: edinburgh

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by z3mcoupe999 »

Take a spare set of track wheels if you can with Michelin Sb9 on them make r888 feel like budget tyres Iv used both and binned the r888,s they are day and night apart for proper track use. If you can't take spare wheels then use r888,s they are the best road legal tyres to use but are still shite compared to Sb9,s
User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
Posts: 728

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by motco »

Jonttt wrote:
motco wrote:Mine is a Sport so has similar suspension to the 'M'
:nono It couldn't really be much more different lol
Fairy Nuff! :D It's not really my principal interest for track use - I took it only because it was about 2 degrees C and I didn't fancy freezing by a**e off in the Westfield. It's obviously silly of me to assume that because the blurb says 'M' Sport suspension, that it's what it has. I admit I haven't made a study of the differences. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised at how chuckable it is and how controllable. Double the engine power and it would be a different matter, clearly. The only disappointment as I said earlier, was the brakes. For that reason alone I wouldn't consider tracking it again without a serious look at a brake pad upgrade.

Oh, and speaking of chuckable, my son's Z4M Coupé had me, as a passenger, close to chucking my breakfast! :|
User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 16:50
Posts: 4032

  M roadster S50

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by c_w »

z3mcoupe999 wrote:Take a spare set of track wheels if you can with Michelin Sb9 on them make r888 feel like budget tyres Iv used both and binned the r888,s they are day and night apart for proper track use. If you can't take spare wheels then use r888,s they are the best road legal tyres to use but are still shite compared to Sb9,s
They're slicks though so of course they're going to be better than R888s or other semi slicks!! the difference will be as big as R888s are over road tyres, but you will not get anywhere near the potential performance of the slick unless you're running mega stiff suspension and solid bushes PLUS many TDOs insist on a cage with slicks. They also need heat in them to work properly, I kept up with a friend on slicks whilst on my road tyres at oulton in Feb because he couldn't g et the heat into them. In summer though they'd be awesome.

Plus there is the fact you can't even fit one spare wheel/tyre in the car so would need a backup vehicle to bring everything. There's no way I'd run a slick on my car, apart from potential chassis damage it just won't use the tyre properly even with the camber I'm running, lowered and with fat ARBs, the suspension just isn't stiff enough.
z3mcoupe999
Joined: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 15:34
Posts: 55

  M coupe S50
Location: edinburgh

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by z3mcoupe999 »

Am just pointing the fact out if you are serious about track use then R888,S are a waste of time,i agree as a road tyre they are superior than your standard road tyres, its really dependant on how serious track driving you do and what you can take to a track day at the time.

And also agree my own track car(which is not the coupe) runs with a cage, full coilver adjustables and these tyres and they are awsome to say the least.

Would recommend to anyone who has not tried track days on a slick to give it a go its the best upgrade i have made on my track car and iv spent 8 grand modding and tuning mine lol they are actually easier to drive with i find aswell.
User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 16:50
Posts: 4032

  M roadster S50

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by c_w »

z3mcoupe999 wrote:Am just pointing the fact out if you are serious about track use then R888,S are a waste of time,i agree as a road tyre they are superior than your standard road tyres, its really dependant on how serious track driving you do and what you can take to a track day at the time.
I would hardly say they're hardly a waste of time, for these cars they're great, you can drive to and from the track and the grip level is enough to go fairly quickly without them sliding around like road tyres. I think the R888s are a great tyre, certainly it's no slick and slicks can be better (although most people you see buy hardened 2nd hard ones) but they're a bit hardcore for most people, and more importantly, for most cars too. Anything that runs on the road or even most "trackday" cars (and drivers) won't use a slick properly.
z3mcoupe999
Joined: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 15:34
Posts: 55

  M coupe S50
Location: edinburgh

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by z3mcoupe999 »

totally argee with you if you have to drive the car there and back use r888,s in that case ,slicks are just the nuts untill it starts raining lol
B1RMA
Joined: Sun 25 Mar, 2012 13:45
Posts: 9

  blank

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by B1RMA »

Thanks for the helpful info, most of my friends use the triple 8's but nobody has tried the Yokohama AO8 yet. As has been stated most people drive their cars to trackdays so slicks are out of the question and in a car the size of a Z3m a change of tyres would require another vehicle. I'm not that serious just like a good blast
User avatar
Jonttt
Z Register member
Joined: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 16:32
Posts: 6554

  M roadster S54
Location: Liverpool

Re: Z3m Roadsters trackday ability.

Post by Jonttt »

motco wrote:
Jonttt wrote:
motco wrote:Mine is a Sport so has similar suspension to the 'M'
:nono It couldn't really be much more different lol
Fairy Nuff! :D It's not really my principal interest for track use - I took it only because it was about 2 degrees C and I didn't fancy freezing by a**e off in the Westfield. It's obviously silly of me to assume that because the blurb says 'M' Sport suspension, that it's what it has. I admit I haven't made a study of the differences. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised at how chuckable it is and how controllable. Double the engine power and it would be a different matter, clearly. The only disappointment as I said earlier, was the brakes. For that reason alone I wouldn't consider tracking it again without a serious look at a brake pad upgrade.

Oh, and speaking of chuckable, my son's Z4M Coupé had me, as a passenger, close to chucking my breakfast! :|
It's like most things and depends on what you are looking to achieve. If its fun on track then nothing wrong with a standard setup which will give you just as many smiles and I agree that a simple pad upgrade is probably the most cost effective upgrade to do on a Z3. If its ultimate speed your after then it is a bottomless money pit with the returns getting progressively less for the money spent lol.
Happiness is not around the corner........happiness is the corner
Image Video or Journal Garage: 2015 FFRR Black Edition, Porsche Boxster GTS, 1997 Porsche Carrara C4S, Ex 2001 BMW S54 Z3m Roadster
Post Reply