opinion and valuation reqd please

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offyourmarks
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opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by offyourmarks » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 06:30

Hi All - it's been a while!

I'm in a predicament and would like to ask for the opinion of you guys and gals.

I used to own a Z3M - 1998 and only 6k miles and FBMWSH. Its was totally as new inside and outside as you would imagine. Breathtaking infact.

Anyway here's the conundrum — should I buy it back? Now the price is not the issue and not really relevant. My issue is the number of owners it has accumulated as it was passed between various collectors over recent years (myself being one in the past) The logbook states 5 previous owners.

First was the lady who had it for 10 years (her and her husband had 6 BMWs)! Then another chap had it for 2 years. Then over the last 6 years it has changed hands 3 more times. The are records of all the names and addresses of the previous keepers and the last 3 were just collectors who kept it air bubbled and never drove it. I used to own it as Ive said and I think in 12 months I must have put on 60 miles!

So, that is my issue really — it's a truly perfect car and I know it well but Ive always had a thing about key details and one of them is the number of former keepers. I was brought up to believe it was a negative and although in reality it doesn't mean anything is wrong in this case I just can't shake it.

So, what do you all think? What should I do? What do you think it is worth? Would you buy it hypothetically?

Thanks in advance :)

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Davejue1
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Davejue1 » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 06:49

A big part of my old job was to value cars and buy into group. Owners became part of that process and affected the value. A car such as a Zed M at the age it is, as a valuer I wouldn't be concerned about 6 owners especially with the home work you've done to find out where's it been since you sold it. I am the sixth owner on my Zed. History and condition are paramount. You done the leg work and your obviously happy with the car. Go fill your boots! Get your Zed back and don't sell it again!! :)
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offyourmarks
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by offyourmarks » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 10:31

Thanks for that Dave. I know it shouldnt really matter but like you say, some cars it does

Values are all over the place at the moment - what would you say its worth?

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Alfie
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Alfie » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 10:55

offyourmarks wrote:Now the price is not the issue and not really relevant.....it's a truly perfect car....
Wow... That's a nice predicament to be in!

A high number of previous owners is generally considered a bad thing because it would normally indicate that the car has not been cared for, and/or has underlying problems that has caused the owners to 'get shot of it'. Clearly that is not the case with this car, so no worries.

You don't mention what the current mileage is, but I would be more concerned about the lack of use. A car being laid-up for long periods can cause many problems which I guess you're aware of.

Regarding a valuation.... As we read so frequently on here, it's only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. And that's YOU!
I think that decent S50s are currently bubbling just under £10k asking price. Obviously this example is exceptional, so if it comes complete with all the original bits and pieces (window blanket, wind deflector, etc.) and all the extras, (hardtop etc.) then maybe you could add £2k to that? And I'm fairly confident that such a car will not depreciate in the future, so it will only cost you the usual annual running costs.

Reading between the lines of your post, I reckon that if you don't buy this one, you'll never buy one at all....

Go for it!

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Alfie
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Alfie » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 10:56

oops.
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offyourmarks
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by offyourmarks » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 11:13

The current milage is around 6300. Its be dry stored and on charge in a clean dry unit with tyre rotaion.

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TitanTim
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by TitanTim » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 11:19

If the Zeds perfect buy it, I wouldn't hesitate and the number of owners isn't an issue, these cars tend to be whim purchases for many and once running costs and practicality take over theyre sold on and hence multiple owners. Buy it before its too late as M prices are on the up. Coupe Breadvan prices are rocketing even for half decent examples will silly high mileages and I would expect M Roadsters to follow suit over time. I've noticed low mileage 30K and below 1.9s, 2.2s are slowly rising in value, I imagine down to it being harder to find low mileage mint examples as most are the wrong side of 50k.

If its the Zed I think it is and the one you offered to me a few years back it would be crazy to pass on.

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Brian H
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Brian H » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 11:25

In my opinion the number of owners in this case does not matter, as long as you have a log of previous owners and can guarantee the mileage I think it is a no brainer, You will effectively be the 7th Owner of the car but in reality only 5 owners have owned this car.

eahornel1
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by eahornel1 » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 12:46

I have been keeping an eye on M prices lately and noticed a few have gone for 20k and the cheapest on autotrader or pistonheads is £13995 for a car with 116000 miles so i dont see where 10k comes from Alfie :? :wink: Acar with that mileage ie 6300 miles is a one off at the moment and would get it back asap....

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pingu
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by pingu » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 13:14

As far as the finances are concerned, the car is worth what you want to pay for it. I'd be very surprised if anyone will want to pay more for the car than you. Afterall, to everyone else it is just a lump of metal, to you it is memories. The number of owners should no longer be a problem, especially if you have a history of who owned it and why they sold it.

But, and I'm probably going to be the only one here to say this... you should never go back. I've never found returning to a good memory was as good as the memory. I've found the best way to relive memories are to do something similar, but different. Mistakes and regrets are two different things. I think it will be a mistake, but I think you will regret not trying to do it more than doing it. So try to do it and if it is a mistake - sell it on with no regrets, you may even make a profit :D .

I'd be tempted to buy a similar car, but not the same one. I'm glad that I don't have this problem. The only person who buys my cars is the scrapman :D .
Pingu

Tilly
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Tilly » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 14:28

pingu wrote: But, and I'm probably going to be the only one here to say this... you should never go back. I've never found returning to a good memory was as good as the memory. I've found the best way to relive memories are to do something similar, but different. Mistakes and regrets are two different things. I think it will be a mistake, but I think you will regret not trying to do it more than doing it. So try to do it and if it is a mistake - sell it on with no regrets, you may even make a profit :D .

I'd be tempted to buy a similar car, but not the same one. I'm glad that I don't have this problem. The only person who buys my cars is the scrapman :D .
I totally agree with the above sentiment. It depends why you want the car. Do you just want an M or has it to be that car. If it is that car ask yourself why. An investment, to drive, to show, just to look at. If rather than just a car it was a person how would you feel about rekindling an old relationship and would the number of intervening partners make any difference. Only you can answer that question.

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Jonttt
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Jonttt » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 14:40

Matt, I think in this case mileage provenance is more important than number of owners. It is without question a garage queen / concours car so number of owners is irrelevant to me as I would expect it to change hands between collectors.

I am assuming you are looking to buy back as an investment. Price as I think you know is very hard to judge with cars at the extreme end of the envelope such as this which is probably the best condition Z3m in Europe unless bmw themselves have one under wraps.

I think if your looking for a medium / long term investment it probably worth 20% more than you sold it for a few years ago :wink:
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Julie Z3 » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 14:57

Don't waste your money let someone buy it who will actually put some mileage on it :drive

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TitanTim
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by TitanTim » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 15:17

Julie Z3 wrote:Don't waste your money let someone buy it who will actually put some mileage on it :drive
I think the attraction is in many ways the opposite.

Tim.
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Badman gee
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Badman gee » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 16:41

Go for it Matt, I'm surprised you let it go before.

Lovely car.
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offyourmarks
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by offyourmarks » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 17:06

Thanks for all the opinions guys - some very valid points 8-)

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Jonttt
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Jonttt » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 23:16

Julie Z3 wrote:Don't waste your money let someone buy it who will actually put some mileage on it :drive
:roll:
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Bi11
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Bi11 » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 23:38

If you want an 'M' again, then that sounds as good a one as you are going to get. If you decide that it is a disappointment, then I doubt you will have much problem selling it!
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Warrior
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Warrior » Sun 08 Mar, 2015 23:42

Was this the blue car?

If it was I remember the day/minute it went on sale. Pistonheads?

Out of my reach price wise but I thought about whether it was a good investment. Several hours later you were on your way to see it and the forum was full of 'wowser' posts.

If it wasn't blue forget the above:)

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Alfie
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Alfie » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 01:22

eahornel1 wrote:I have been keeping an eye on M prices lately and noticed a few have gone for 20k and the cheapest on autotrader or pistonheads is £13995 for a car with 116000 miles so i dont see where 10k comes from Alfie :? :wink:
Clearly your finger is much closer to 'the pulse' than mine.
Are you sure they've actually sold for that much?
If sold prices really have risen to the levels you mention then they've gone up massively since I last looked, and that wasn't long ago.
Excellent! 8-)

EDIT:
I just checked Autotrader, and wow, I'm shocked. In a nice way.
S50s for £18k £19k £23k.... Again...WOW.
So where does that put S54s these days?
:shock:

A.
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offyourmarks
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by offyourmarks » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 06:23

I remember buying a lovely z3m with 55k on the clock about 5 years ago. Needed a couple of little cosmetic jobs but had 4 owners FBMWSH and drove like new. I paid £4500!!!

Kiboko
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by Kiboko » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 15:06

Current values? I paid £8,995 for my 2.2i manual <10k, there's a 1.9 auto with 19.5k on sale on Autotrader right now for £6000, http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... ?logcode=p

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offyourmarks
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by offyourmarks » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 16:30

Word on the street is that z3m roadies are soaring in value :wink:

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TitanTim
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by TitanTim » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 16:35

If you read the latest issue of BMW Mag there's a buyer's guide to the 1.9 which according to them is the one to go for driving enjoyment.

Form an orderly queue here please :)

Tim.
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chill4x4saph
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by chill4x4saph » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 18:54

seems like a silly question to me! (and one which I would answer for myself rather than ask the opinion of a group forum members!!) (with all due respect to said forum members!), why wouldn't you buy it back?!?!?, I know I certainly would!, unless the price was ridiculous!......, and for the record I watch the prices constantly and personally reckon that one that is as near to new as that must be, is surely worth at least £25k, at very least!, if it was a coupe it would be up for nearer £40k (probably over £40k actually)

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offyourmarks
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by offyourmarks » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 20:47

Why is it a silly question - the question is based around the number of former keepers and the effect on its value. Given that forum members are and have been buyers of Z3 M cars then surely their opinion on the effect of former keepers is valuable. :)

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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by chill4x4saph » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 22:58

well, I personally would never decide to buy a car on someone elses opinion, maybe I would ask around if I knew nothing about a particular model, but even then id give the info only a relative amount of credence, (after all if you research any car they ALL have their issues, no one would buy anything if all the horror stories of every car were taken as gospel), but that is irrelevant as not only do you know the model, you know the actual car!, and like you said that is not the issue anyway.

this however is the question of number of former keepers, well that's a general question for buying any car, a z3m is no more sensitive to previous owners than a fiesta or a Bentley so it doesn't need z3m forum members to give any specialist insight!

also you are one of the previous owners!!, so there's one previous owner you really ought to trust!!, and I understand that you didn't have it from new, so whoever had it prior to you last time should be discounted from your decision as it wasn't an issue when you bought it last time.

if the car has all of its corresponding service history to mileage, dates, mots etc and you trust the mileage and the condition of the car backs up the miles and claims that its only been stored well that's the real proof.

I feel its a silly question as I think its one that cant be answered unless everyone with an opinion took a day trip to look at the car with you!, I wasn't being funny with my initial reply, but its not an answerable question imo, some will say they wouldn't buy it with loads of owners, yet ive seen one owner cars that were dogs!!

basically I meant that its a question only yourself can answer!, again IMO!,

the key point I was making with my initial reply was that it wouldn't bother me!, yeah it would be nicer if it was one owner, but unless there's another 6k miler for sale with one owner history the question is irrelevant

or to condense all that down a little, I think it a silly question because how many more 6k milers are likely to come for sale?!?!?...., not a lot of choice really!!!...., but if you don't buy it someone will!!!

eahornel1
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by eahornel1 » Tue 10 Mar, 2015 18:10

offyourmarks wrote:Why is it a silly question - the question is based around the number of former keepers and the effect on its value. Given that forum members are and have been buyers of Z3 M cars then surely their opinion on the effect of former keepers is valuable. :)
Quite Right. :wink:

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offyourmarks
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by offyourmarks » Tue 10 Mar, 2015 18:42

Well i decided that never going back was the best option. I remembered why i initially sold it and that was because the times where the weather allowed and my wife allowed never seemed to coincide.

Ive decided to buy a less than perfect example and go out in it whenever

Thanks to all of you who gave their opinion.

Matt

eahornel1
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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by eahornel1 » Tue 10 Mar, 2015 20:10

So after all the disgussion Matt at least you could tell us how much you could have got it for.

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Re: opinion and valuation reqd please

Post by offyourmarks » Tue 10 Mar, 2015 20:51

That I cannot do for a number of reasons. Sorry :(

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