Front Seat Lift Spacers / Seat Lifters

Whether you are having a garage clear-out, looking for a second-hand accessory, or buying/selling a Z, post your 'for sale' and 'wanted' ads here.
This Forum is not meant for discussion, please do not comment on the asking price.
Post Reply
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Front Seat Lift Spacers / Seat Lifters

Post by pingu »



https://youtu.be/X8TwJbRowKY

At the dock of the bay soon...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/sony_jim/m.html?

If not, PM me for details.
Last edited by pingu on Sat 06 May, 2017 19:08, edited 2 times in total.
Pingu
User avatar
xtLSport
Joined: Sun 03 Apr, 2005 23:49
Posts: 44

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport »

looks great, could you do a thicker version?
I personally use those: https://thayermotorsports.com/products/ ... 5904036359

Image

and I think they are much higher, but I feel a insecure to have just a bit of steel with no base holding all the weight of the seat.

Would you be able to make one much thicker?
I'd really like one like yours which feels more safe, as it supports part of the rail, but I'd like it twice as high, or at least 1,5 times high.
The difference is significant:

Image

Can you make it??

Thanks
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

I looked at the Thayler ones and decided that they put too much pressure on the floor.

The original area in contact with the carpet is 2400 sq mm.

The area in contact with the carpet in the Thayler solution is at most 500 sq mm - nearly five times the pressure on the carpet and hence the floor.


With regard to making them much thicker there are three problems that I can see

1. The spacer will need to be wedged in order to maintain full contact with both the seat base and the carpet.
2. The length of the nut may become an issue. If it is too long, it could shear when it is tightened.
3. The angle the seat makes with the floor will become so great that the hole in the seat will no longer align with the floor stud. The floor stud will then be bent out of position.
xtLSport wrote:Can you make it??
I could make the Thayler solution with great ease. It is just a collection of stuff you can buy from Screwfix.

I think that a better solution would be to combine the two solutions. In order to do that, I would need to measure the Thayler solution in place.

A much better solution would be to supply different lengths of hollow nuts and the corresponding spacer blocks - I shall investigate this :D
Pingu
User avatar
xtLSport
Joined: Sun 03 Apr, 2005 23:49
Posts: 44

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport »

pingu wrote:I looked at the Thayler ones and decided that they put too much pressure on the floor.

The original area in contact with the carpet is 2400 sq mm.

The area in contact with the carpet in the Thayler solution is at most 500 sq mm - nearly five times the pressure on the carpet and hence the floor.


With regard to making them much thicker there are three problems that I can see

1. The spacer will need to be wedged in order to maintain full contact with both the seat base and the carpet.
2. The length of the nut may become an issue. If it is too long, it could shear when it is tightened.
3. The angle the seat makes with the floor will become so great that the hole in the seat will no longer align with the floor stud. The floor stud will then be bent out of position.
xtLSport wrote:Can you make it??
I could make the Thayler solution with great ease. It is just a collection of stuff you can buy from Screwfix.

I think that a better solution would be to combine the two solutions. In order to do that, I would need to measure the Thayler solution in place.

A much better solution would be to supply different lengths of hollow nuts and the corresponding spacer blocks - I shall investigate this :D
Thanks for your constructive answer!
The ideal solution to me would be to make a thicker version of yours, maybe not twice as thick, but just some more... That would mean your spacer would be also longer to accomodate the rail further away. But not even sure that's really needed.

As you can see in Thayer's picture the space between rail and floor is almost as much as the rail is wide. So, almost a square.
In your solution it's half this heigt, or less. Which is already an improvement, but I prefer it to be a little higher.

If you manage to make one which is a bit thicker and longer, I'll be a customer for my 2 Z's ;)
And also can propose them on my website - maybe you know it.
:wink:
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

I'm just about to go outside and investigate a solution :D .
Last edited by pingu on Fri 03 Mar, 2017 13:54, edited 1 time in total.
Pingu
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

pingu wrote:I'm just about to go outside and investigate a solution :D .
Further investigation tells me that the Thayler solution actually changes the design of the seat base mounting.

The original solution PULLS the stud. In the event of the seat base being forced downward, the load is spread over an area of 2400 sq mm.

The Thayler solution uses the stud as a locator and the stud is not being pulled towards the seat, it is being used to hold the hollow nut in place. In the event of the seat base being forced downward, the load is spread over the area of the washer below the hollow nut (500 sq mm).


My solution is to use the spacer to take the weight of the seat base, and use the Thayler solution to locate the spacer and the seat base. As there will be a slight gap between the hollow nut and the seat base, the hollow nut will be an extension of the floor stud. In my solution, the stud will be PULLED.

I forgot to show the carpet in the sketch, but here is the solution for the thick spacers...

Image
................................. floor stud


I've tested the solution using scraps and multiple spacers. At the moment the 3D printer is rattling away making a 23mm spacer. I'll have to test it for strength once it's completed - a firm thump with a 14lb sledge should be a good test :D .
Pingu
User avatar
xtLSport
Joined: Sun 03 Apr, 2005 23:49
Posts: 44

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport »

Very interesting, but not sure i'm getting it 100%.
So you would keep the thayer solution and just add two spacer on both sides of the thayer solution, to support the weight of the seat?
Or would you create a 1 piece spacer that is screwed on the stud and do a hybrid version of both?
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

xtLSport wrote:Very interesting, but not sure i'm getting it 100%.
So you would keep the thayer solution and just add two spacer on both sides of the thayer solution, to support the weight of the seat?
Or would you create a 1 piece spacer that is screwed on the stud and do a hybrid version of both?
Notice the space between the "hollow nut" and the "original nut" on the sketch. This is very important because it totally changes the design.

Image

The red arrows are the force "path" for each solution.

In the Thayler solution, the forces travel from - the seat to the washer - to the hollow nut and upper stud - (*) -to the floor stud and hollow nut - to the lower washer and floor stud - to the floor.
(*) if there is a gap between the two studs the forces at this point will only go through the hollow nut

In the Pingu solution, the forces travel from - the seat to the spacer - to the carpet - to the floor.

The most important thing to notice about the two sketches is the "graphs". The area under the curve is the force and the area would be the same for both solutions as the force (weight) of the seat is the same. The "height" of the curve is the stress. As you can see, the shape of the Thayler solution means that the stress must be much greater than the Pingu solution - at least 2400/500 (nearly 5) times greater.

It's not easy explaining things like this over t'internet :)
Pingu
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

Failed the sledge hammer test - I need to reinforce the solution.
Pingu
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

Solution that passes the sledge test...


https://youtu.be/ZaY7Gej0Z9k
Pingu
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

I've decided that the solution above is too much of a faff, so I've ordered some aluminium and I'm going to make some spacers from that.
Pingu
Z3Jeremy
Joined: Sun 23 Jun, 2013 08:40
Posts: 71

  Z3 roadster 1.9i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by Z3Jeremy »

Am i missing the point? are you aware the seat height is electrically adjustable or are you abnormally short? apologies if so then maybe a cushion is a simpler solution, Jeremy..
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

Z3Jeremy wrote:Am i missing the point? are you aware the seat height is electrically adjustable or are you abnormally short? apologies if so then maybe a cushion is a simpler solution, Jeremy..
The height adjustment raises the front and rear of the seat equally.

These seat spacers only raise the front.
Pingu
User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 16:50
Posts: 4032

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by c_w »

Z3Jeremy wrote:Am i missing the point? are you aware the seat height is electrically adjustable or are you abnormally short? apologies if so then maybe a cushion is a simpler solution, Jeremy..
As above reply, the seats are a little on the horizontal side, but with the front lifted the seats become much more supportive and comfortable.
User avatar
xtLSport
Joined: Sun 03 Apr, 2005 23:49
Posts: 44

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport »

pingu wrote:Solution that passes the sledge test...


https://youtu.be/ZaY7Gej0Z9k
Amazing job man!!!
keep it going, as I mentioned I am interested in the final solution, I think you got the height right.
Now it's a matter of finding the perfect set-up between the plastic part and the metal housing, but I think you are close to it!
:wink:
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

I've made a prototype that I'm happy with :D . I just have to do the admin.

I'll post up the details soon.
Pingu
User avatar
xtLSport
Joined: Sun 03 Apr, 2005 23:49
Posts: 44

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport »

great! have you tested it?
i'll be waiting for the update :squeeze:
User avatar
xtLSport
Joined: Sun 03 Apr, 2005 23:49
Posts: 44

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport »

hey @pingu, any news? :)
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

xtLSport wrote:hey @pingu, any news? :)
I've decided to give 4 options for sizes.

10mm
15mm
20mm
25mm

I've made a prototype for each and I finished the video about 2 minutes ago. It's uploading at the moment and I'll publish it tomorrow (hopefully).

-----------------------

Tomorrow is here!!!



https://youtu.be/mdWoQ1wv6yE
Pingu
bentley-boy
Joined: Mon 28 Oct, 2013 19:35
Posts: 261

  blank

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by bentley-boy »

That looks nicely engineered avoiding high loading on a small area the problem with other versions, don't want any fractured floors!! Have you arrived at a price for 25mm ones? That said what is your suggested height, I know it's a personal one. Surprised no-one else has expressed interest.

BB
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

bentley-boy wrote:That looks nicely engineered avoiding high loading on a small area the problem with other versions, don't want any fractured floors!! Have you arrived at a price for 25mm ones? That said what is your suggested height, I know it's a personal one. Surprised no-one else has expressed interest.

BB
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332173267062

It will cost you £22.50 as there is a 25% discount on the first order. The reason is that they are prototypes and are "scarred" where I may have had to make adjustments to sizes, etc., but they are fully functional.

My preference is for either the 10mm, 15mm or the 20mm. I think 25mm is too "laid back", but it is perfectly functional.

I suggest that you fit a range of spacers (such as pieces of wood) under the seat to find the height that suits you best.
Pingu
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

I've just made some plastic gauges that can be used to test the four heights.

They were a pain to make as they took 24 hours on a 3D printer and the print was only successful on the third attempt :head: .

For you to borrow them, all I ask is that you gift me (via PayPal) the £2:60 postage and return them when finished using the label and stamp provided.

PM me if you are interested.

Image

There are enough gauges for one seat to range from 10mm to 25mm. The first gauge is the 10mm gauge and each of the others adds on 5mm.

Instructions
Pingu
User avatar
xtLSport
Joined: Sun 03 Apr, 2005 23:49
Posts: 44

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport »

Congratulations pingu!! Looks great.
That is great, i will purchase a 25mm kit right now.

edit: just purchased it ;)
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

xtLSport wrote:Congratulations pingu!! Looks great.
That is great, i will purchase a 25mm kit right now.

edit: just purchased it ;)
Thanks

I can't post them until Tuesday as the Post Office is closed due to public holiday. I've refunded you £7.50 as you were the first to buy and get a 25% discount :) .
Pingu
User avatar
xtLSport
Joined: Sun 03 Apr, 2005 23:49
Posts: 44

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport »

great! no hurries.
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

At last...

10mm Spacers

15mm Spacers

20mm Spacers

25mm Spacers

Gauge Kit (free to borrow - you just pay for postage)
Pingu
User avatar
Brian H
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2505

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by Brian H »

Great work Pingu, nice kit of parts :)
User avatar
Tufarlian
Joined: Sat 14 Mar, 2009 20:21
Posts: 307

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by Tufarlian »

My kit arrived today.

Looks very nicely made. :)

Seat is coming out to have the bolster refurb'ed next week so it will go back in with the kit.

Thanks
Mark
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

Tufarlian wrote:My kit arrived today.

Looks very nicely made. :)

Seat is coming out to have the bolster refurb'ed next week so it will go back in with the kit.

Thanks
Mark
Any problems or suggestions for improvement, let me know :thumb:
Pingu
User avatar
xtLSport
Joined: Sun 03 Apr, 2005 23:49
Posts: 44

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport »

I just received my kit, I will install it this weekend!
By the way, you are going to receive a couple of orders from my Z3 friends in holland and spain ;)
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu »

xtLSport wrote:I just received my kit, I will install it this weekend!
By the way, you are going to receive a couple of orders from my Z3 friends in holland and spain ;)
Let me know how you get on.

I have the material to make more kits if I run out of stock, but it may take about a week to make another batch.

I'm happy to sell at a 10% discount off eBay using PayPal gifting, but I understand if they want the security of eBay.
Pingu
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers / Seat Lifters

Post by pingu »

I made a gif to show how the tilted seat compares to the original...

Image
Pingu
blusat
Joined: Sun 09 Jul, 2023 13:50
Posts: 1

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers / Seat Lifters

Post by blusat »

Hello,

having serious back problems I have discovered today your solution which I prefer by far against on other one I saw from the other side of the ocean (ref surface and forces on the car floor !).

Just a quick question: what is the purpose of the rear plastic wedges, they seem rather thin so not sure ?

Thanks.
User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 16:01
Posts: 3412

  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers / Seat Lifters

Post by pingu »

The reason is to try to prevent the rear of the frame being bent if the bolts are overtorqued.

They probably don't do much.

In an ideal world, the bolt would be perpendicular to the seat base, or have a wedged washer below the bolt head to keep the bolt aligned with the captive nut.

If you want a set, you will have to get them made yourself, as I no longer make them.

https://www.porterbility.co.uk/z3_seat_spacer.htm
Pingu
Post Reply