Pirelli 225.45.16

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Jet
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Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by Jet »

Pirelli will be releasing a 225/45-16 P700-Z, pending approval from BMW.
felix
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by felix »

I've had few good experiences with Pirellis - they just don't seem to last on a low use car. Either they crack, are very prone to flat-spotting or just go hard. My Z1 has 15 year old Goodyears that look like new. They get carefully inspected every year for cracks etc and are just fine. And they still seem to stick like the proverbial to a blanket.
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Jet
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by Jet »

Hopefully tech has moved on to the point we don't see a repeat of that, but its good news as one of the questions that regularly pops up, is there a premium brand tyre for the Z1, looks like we are going to have one.
TJS
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by TJS »

Why do Pirelli need BMW's approval to remanufacture one of their tyres when new P700-Z are already available ? Do BMW have a veto on the tyre size?
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by TJS »

Whoever bought this will probably need a new set of OEM P700-Z tyres. Given Felix experience I am not sure I would want to drive the car which is still on its original 28 year old tyres.

http://www.coys.co.uk/cars/1990-bmw-z1-roadster
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Jet
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by Jet »

Manufacturer approval gives them a star marking, officially recognised and approved for use.
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by TJS »

Douglas at Longstone Tyres spent a lot of time talking to Pirelli regarding the reintroduction of period sized Pirelli Cinturatos and, very recently, the 15 inch P700-Z for the Audi Quattro boys. Maybe they will add the Z1 to their classic BMW list.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirell ... /p700.html

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... s/bmw.html

It's good to see a manufacturer such as Pirelli recognise the need to produce low volume tyres for the "modern classics" especially as Goodyear and Continental have ceased production of Z1 sized boots
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Stoertie
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by Stoertie »

Jet wrote: Mon 27 Aug, 2018 10:57 Manufacturer approval gives them a star marking, officially recognised and approved for use.
Hi Jet,

first of all I don't understand who needs an 30 year old tire design, but anyway I'm a "tire- and grip-fetishist" and change my tires when they lost grip in the wet (so my tires are changed after 4 max. 5 years). I think safety should be much more important than design and can't believe that a remanufactured 30 year old tire design is better the design of today.

You are right, the star marking shows that a tire is manufactured exclusive for BMW (at Mercedes tires you find the letters "MO"). But the composition is also special made for the car makers. Mostly these tires are optimized for reducing the fuel consumption and noise and raise up life time. But all of these characteristics are reducing the grip.
For example, the German ADAC (in UK it's the AA) tested winter tires. Best was a Continental tire. In that test session they also tested the same Continental tire with "MO" mark and it was one of the worst.

At my Z1 I have mounted the Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 R and it's the perfect tire for me… It has a very high grip level, is well tempered when you reach the limit and it has good rain performance for a UHP-tire. The performance of that tire comes really very near to a real semi slick, but it cost the half and it's better in rain. ;-)


Best regards
Michael
Men of steel driving cars of plastic! :-D

Sorry, for my poor english... schooltime is already a few years ago, but I try to do my very best! :-D

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TJS
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by TJS »

Interesting interview on classic cars and new "older style" tyres, with Pirelli content.

Michael, interesting and good choice of Yoko AD08 R's for a Z1. They are very popular with Lotus Elise / Exige people and I will use them to replace the current Yoko AO48 LTS semi slicks on the Exige S, which will be soon as they only last 3k miles a set. The AO48 LTS are great for track days but overkill for dry road use, and are simply nasty in the wet, they are one of the few things that make my bum pucker.

The Z1 is currently on a set of the last Continetals which replaced the Goodyear Eagle F1 "arrow head " style tread pattern, both of which are no longer available. J, any news on when the Pirellis will be available ?

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbRr6gzD82I
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Stoertie
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by Stoertie »

Hi TJS, ;)

a few years ago I had a second set of wheels with semi-slicks (Bridgestone RE-540) for my Z1, that I only used at track days events.

But the difference between the semi slick and the AD08R is not so big. The RE-540 is a little bit more non-problematic at the limit range, but the grip level is nearly the same. So it makes no sense to buy the expensive semi-slicks for a few hours on a race track.

In July some friends (with Z1) and I rent a race track near Padborg in Denmark to have some fun...
Image




...and the AD08 after a few laps:
Image


regards
Michael
Men of steel driving cars of plastic! :-D

Sorry, for my poor english... schooltime is already a few years ago, but I try to do my very best! :-D

If you like, please visit Z1-Nordlichter / Leather Care / Roadster-Fashion.de

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sfh3l
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by sfh3l »

I tend to agree with Felix Re Pirelli. Never really liked any of their tyres that I’ve had. Used P700-z on my old CRX and they were ok but every time I’ve had a bmw with them fitted they have been a disappointment.

Toyo T1-R is a great tyre for the money but not too strong in wet and greasy conditions. If those Yokies are available as 225/45/16 then they would be my choice next time around I think....
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TJS
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by TJS »

How are BMW getting on with approving the re-manufacture of the Z1 sized Pirelli P700-Z ??

The Yokohama 225/45/16 AD08R is no longer available having been replaced by an updated AD08RS (with go faster stripes) recommended for primarily trackday use.
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Stoertie
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by Stoertie »

TJS wrote: Fri 15 Oct, 2021 15:11 The Yokohama 225/45/16 AD08R is no longer available having been replaced by an updated AD08RS (with go faster stripes) recommended for primarily trackday use.
Hi TJS,

that's right, the AD08R was modified because of the EU lable guidelines.
Last year in July I got a new set of tires from Yokohama because three of my AD08R got cracks across the tread (it was a production failure) and the new ones are the AD08RS. :-(
My opinion is, that the new one is made more for ordinary allday use than the first version. The AD08R has had more grip at the track and also more grip in allday use.
The only "negative" point is, that Yokohama gives a temperature limit of 10°C for this tire. Below this you shouldn't use it on the road.

At the end of september we took part in the youngtimer rally "Creme 21". 1000km at east german roads and the Yokohama was perfect also for that. The week before we had a rainy one day tour with the zroadster.com(!) forum in the north of Schleswig-Holstein. The tires are absolutely rainproof and have a good grip also in wet conditions. There may be problems if the water is 1-2 cm high on the road, but then you will have problems with every tire. :wink:

And yes, it's a UHP tire. The description of Yokohama:
Applications
Club racers
Sport cars
Tuning

Benefits
The fine-tuned compound for sport feeling and its environmental performance
The street-legal tyre complies with European standard for rolling resistance
Stability and fast response during high-speed driving
Faster than ever, from the 1st lap, keeping performance
More controllable than ever, excellent cornering force

Features
The new fine-tuned compound for sport and good environmental feature
Sequential Round Groove for long-life grip
Uni-block Shoulder for rigidity of the tread
Groove-in-Groove for even wear and stability


A real tarck-day tire is the AD052.
A052.jpg
A052.jpg (30.17 KiB) Viewed 393 times
That is a tire I would not recommend for allday use in rainy areas. :D

Regards
Michael
Men of steel driving cars of plastic! :-D

Sorry, for my poor english... schooltime is already a few years ago, but I try to do my very best! :-D

If you like, please visit Z1-Nordlichter / Leather Care / Roadster-Fashion.de

I believe I can fly... *lalala* Image
TJS
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by TJS »

After a couple of emails and phone calls it would appear BMW are not minded to "approve" the Pirelli P700-Z in Z1 compatible 225/45/16. Additionally, it seems there is insufficient commercial demand given the alternative budget options currently available from Hankook, Nexen and Falken.

As Micheal pointed out specialist road legal track day tyres are available in the form of the Yokohama A08RS, and the latest A052 which replaced the A048. The Lotus Exige S is currently sitting on a set of 2016 A048's which are very near the tread wear bars and cracking after 3,000 miles and no track days. Alternative Z1 track focused tyres include the Avon ZZS and Cooper Tires RS3-R.

Longstone did point out that an Audi Quattro homologated P700-Z is now available in 215/50/ZR15 and that the Pirelli P7 is now available for the BMW M1 and Z1 albeit they were recently produced at the request of Aston Martin, Porsche and Lamborghini.

Z1 sized Pirelli Cinturato P7 and Michelin SX MXX3 (Porsche certified N2) are now available to order at £350 per tyre, plus fitting costs, which is a similar price to a full set of fitted Nexen tyres

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirell ... p7-n4.html

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyres/ ... -mxx3.html

The Z1 is currently on a set of 2013 Continentals with very good remaining tread depth at 6mm due to low mileage. For info on tyre age and replacement see the attached video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbRr6gzD82I
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Stoertie
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Re: Pirelli 225.45.16

Post by Stoertie »

TJS wrote: Thu 28 Oct, 2021 14:50 As Micheal pointed out specialist road legal track day tyres are available in the form of the Yokohama A08RS, and the latest A052 which replaced the A048.
Hi TJS,

no problem, everyone can buy and drive the tire he wanted to...
My opinion is. that it makes no sense to remake old tires just to get the old design of the treat. - But that's only my opinion. :lol:

The AD08RS is not a real trackday tire. It's only a UHP tire (Ultra High Performance). The big diffenrence is, that you can trust it in rain and it will have much less wear than a semi-slick or trackday tire. :D
My AD08RS are from July 2019 they have nearly 10.000 km (incl. 3 of our Z1-trackdays) and lost just 1.7mm. (After 5000km my Bridgestone semi-slicks lost 4.5 mm... ;-) )

And yes(!), I am a rubber fetishist! :D :D :D ...the only thing between my car and the ditch, the field, the meadow or the tree are the tires. :shock:
As soon as I notice that the tires have lost grip when wet, they are changed. So far, my oldest tires on the Z1 were almost 5 years old. Almost new in terms of tread depth, but the grip has noticeably decreased. These few Euros are nothing in comparison with repair cost of a crashed Z1. :D

I have two nice picture that shows what can happen with 7 year old Conti Sport Contact with 3 mm tread depth. The road was not really wet, just a little damp, but that was already too much for the tires:
Norway2012_3.jpg
Norway2012_3.jpg (175.22 KiB) Viewed 275 times
...and a second one:
Norway2012_4.jpg
(254.91 KiB) Not downloaded yet


Regards
Michael
Men of steel driving cars of plastic! :-D

Sorry, for my poor english... schooltime is already a few years ago, but I try to do my very best! :-D

If you like, please visit Z1-Nordlichter / Leather Care / Roadster-Fashion.de

I believe I can fly... *lalala* Image
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