Wing mirror vibration

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BonBon
Joined: Tue 08 Jan, 2008 21:10
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Wing mirror vibration

Post by BonBon »

My driver wing mirror is sound (no rust/bubbling and I can swivel it to access the two allen screws which are fully tight) but there seems to be some "play" between the mirror and the mounting bracket which leaves me with a vibrating rear view image. (I fear that by swivelling the mirror I may have made it worse)
Is there any way to eliminate?

///M_aniac
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Post by ///M_aniac »

Mine does this too. Driver side only.

I think a lot of Zeds do this. Just a little quirk of the car. I've gotten used to it now.
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estocks
Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 23:36
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Post by estocks »

Could try popping off the mirror glass and tightening the motor screws. Pics here.
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Use the Search button before posting newbie questions about hard tops and fitting kits, footwell speaker amps, water in the boot, hood maintainance and those horrific angel eyes. We get like 10 threads a week on the same subject, it's obvious that you haven't searched.

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BonBon
Joined: Tue 08 Jan, 2008 21:10
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Post by BonBon »

The problem is between the mirror holder and the door mount and not between the mirror and it's holder.

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Gazza
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Post by Gazza »

How about sliding a thin piece of rubber between the mount and mirror base :idea:
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

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321bhp
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Post by 321bhp »

garythefish wrote:How about sliding a thin piece of rubber between the mount and mirror base :idea:
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BonBon
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Post by BonBon »

I also thought of that - and tried - but the bottom of the mirror base is not flat but rather sharp edges - which is not enough support for the rubber (aside from the fact that it would need to stick out from the support which would be unsightly..)

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BonBon
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Post by BonBon »

321 - my wife is an Essex girl - so I appreciate your humor.
If you see my cousin with the Black Lambo in Loughton send regards.

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BonBon
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Post by BonBon »

Due to my compulsive nature I took a few hours and teardowns to get to the source of the problem.
Hard to believe - but the problem lies in the driver-side metal door.
If one flexes the driver side mirror, the door panel in the vicinity of the mirror also flexes and hence in reverse the amplified mirror vibration when the car is vibrating. This does not happen on the passenger side where the fabrication of the door panel must have been marginally different - so flexing the the mirror dos not flex the door panel.
One can play with spacers - which will help at some frequencies - but at others will not (for example car stationary vs in motion).
As someone else said in the thread, 'I'll just have to get used to it". Frustrating... but part of life.

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Gazza
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  M roadster S54
Location: Romford Essex

Post by Gazza »

How about applying a thin plastic or similar pad to the inside door skin for extra support/stiffness?
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

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Post by Guest »

You could try to demodulate the mirror housing by increasing its weight - mix some body filler and lead shot, and stick it inside the mirror housing. The heavier an item is, the more energy is required to vibrate it, and the resonant frequency changes too.

I did this very successfully with the mirrors on my BMW R100RS motorcycle, where the mirrors are notorious for vibration. In this case I drilled a hole on the bottom edge of the mirror, and poured in a mixture of lead shot and polyester resin - they weighed a ton, but didn't vibrate any more.

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BonBon
Joined: Tue 08 Jan, 2008 21:10
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Wing mirror vibration fix

Post by BonBon »

Despite encouragement from a number of fellow Zedsters - I was reluctant to accept wing mirror vibration was a fact of life.
A while ago I established that the problem was between the mount and the door.
Close inspection showed that the mirror mount gasket was not under pressure - even though the 2 Allen screws were fully tightened. Upon dismantling the mirror assembly (via removing the mirror from it's 4 clips) it became evident that the mirror mount was sitting only on the two Allen screw collars as opposed to being supported by the 2 Allen screws & the 3 pins & snug rubber gasket. This was observed by assembling the mount without the gasket - the three pins were not touching the baseplate on the inside of the door panel - thus the mirror was vibrating cuz it was supported primarily by 2 points only.
Picture of mirror from bottom: http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... CF1129.jpg
Picture of baseplate on door: http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... CF1131.jpg
To fix I basically grinded the 2 Allen collars and 3 pins such that all 5 were in contact with the baseplate when closing the Allen screws (see the 5 shiny points in the first pic)- then I proceeded to grind them all uniformly, a bit more, to ensure that when the Allens were tightened that the gasket was very snug (this second step may have been eliminated by a new gasket )
Bottom line - the driver's mirror is now as solid as a rock and no more vibrating rear view images. :D I did not compare to the passenger side (LHD) - so I'm not sure if the design flaw is in the mount mould (ie pin heights) or the height of the baseplate.

Still don't understand one thing. From what I hear, whether LHD or RHD, people complain of the vibration from the driver's wing mirror only. Perhaps one is more sensitive to the one closer to the driver??? :?

Tips
1. Be very patient with the grinding and do many iterations by mounting w/o the gasket - as you can't add material if you take off too much. (wouldn't be the end of the world anyway as it will sit on the gasket)
2. Make sure you don't loose the mirror motor wires into the door panel.
3. Thread discussing how to remove the mirror from its 4 clips (you need to go this way in order to remove the gasket and the mirror motor cable)
http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... &highlight
4. Be careful not to scratch the mirror or the door in the process
5. Change the gasket while you're at it. PN51168400297(left door) PN51168400298 (right)

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BonBon
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Wing mirror vibration fix

Post by BonBon »

Error
Last edited by BonBon on Sat 20 Feb, 2021 17:35, edited 1 time in total.

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lurker
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Re: Wing mirror vibration fix

Post by lurker »

BonBon wrote:Despite encouragement from a number of fellow Zedsters - I was reluctant to accept wing mirror vibration was a fact of life.
A while ago I established that the problem was between the mount and the door.
Close inspection showed that the mirror mount gasket was not under pressure - even though the 2 Allen screws were fully tightened. Upon dismantling the mirror assembly (via removing the mirror from it's 4 clips) it became evident that the mirror mount was sitting only on the two Allen screw collars as opposed to being supported by the 2 Allen screws & the 3 pins & snug rubber gasket. This was observed by assembling the mount without the gasket - the three pins were not touching the baseplate on the inside of the door panel - thus the mirror was vibrating cuz it was supported primarily by 2 points only.
Picture of mirror from bottom: http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... CF1129.jpg
Picture of baseplate on door: http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... CF1131.jpg
To fix I basically grinded the 2 Allen collars and 3 pins such that all 5 were in contact with the baseplate when closing the Allen screws (see the 5 shiny points in the first pic)- then I proceeded to grind them all uniformly, a bit more, to ensure that when the Allens were tightened that the gasket was very snug (this second step may have been eliminated by a new gasket )
Bottom line - the driver's mirror is now as solid as a rock and no more vibrating rear view images. :D I did not compare to the passenger side (LHD) - so I'm not sure if the design flaw is in the mount mould (ie pin heights) or the height of the baseplate.

Still don't understand one thing. From what I hear, whether LHD or RHD, people complain of the vibration from the driver's wing mirror only. Perhaps one is more sensitive to the one closer to the driver??? :?

Tips
1. Be very patient with the grinding and do many iterations by mounting w/o the gasket - as you can't add material if you take off too much. (wouldn't be the end of the world anyway as it will sit on the gasket)
2. Make sure you don't loose the mirror motor wires into the door panel.
3. Thread discussing how to remove the mirror from its 4 clips (you need to go this way in order to remove the gasket and the mirror motor cable)
http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... &highlight
4. Be careful not to scratch the mirror or the door in the process
5. Change the gasket while you're at it. PN51168400297(left door) PN51168400298 (right)
thanks for this, seeing this post reminded me that I've been meaning to search for a solution for mine for ages, again, just the drivers side and virtually impossible to recognise what type of a car's behind you at circa100mph (autobahn of course)

will give this a go when I get a mo - can't see the pics cos this connection is too slow but am I right in assuming you basically made the bolts shorter so you could tighten them better?
'98 Z3 2.8 Nottingham
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...

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BonBon
Joined: Tue 08 Jan, 2008 21:10
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Post by BonBon »

Not the bolts.
Shave down the 5 protrusions/pins/studs on the bottom of the mirror mount - so that none will be "in the air" and that the gasket will be adequately pressurized around its whole perimeter between the mount and the door panel.
Tricky bits:
1. Getting the mirror off its 4 clips (if you've never done it before)
2. Having the patience for many slow iterations ( which involves getting down on your backside to see if all pins are touching more or less equally without the gasket)

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Gazza
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Location: Romford Essex

Post by Gazza »

Could this thread be moved to the Z3 Knowledge Base ?
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

Z3 S54 M roadster Image, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
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lurker
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Post by lurker »

garythefish wrote:Could this thread be moved to the Z3 Knowledge Base ?
yep, would be good as its a common issue
'98 Z3 2.8 Nottingham
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...

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BonBon
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Post by BonBon »

For completion there are a couple of other sources of mirror vibration (which was not in my case)
1. one or more of the four clips on the backside of the mirror is released (easy fix - just depress mirror with minimal force)
2. relaxed spring on the swiwel joint between the mirror support plate and the mount (not tried but I guess a solution aside from a new part is to encase and eliminate the swivel with epoxy)

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BonBon
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Post by BonBon »

Well.... the last fix went most of the way to eliminate the mirror vibration. Initially I was so excited by the drastic improvement I thought it was the whole whack. Besides, I'm running out of projects to express TLC for the recently acquired toy.
So, I decided to do the fix I already mentioned, which is to override the spring swivel joint.
Attached are pictures of the joint before
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... CF1138.jpg
and after I filled the free space around the spring with epoxy putty. (including the groove in the mount)
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... CF1140.jpg
I just did a short spin and I can now read road signs in my wing mirror that are 300 yards behind me.
This may explain why complaints (both LHD and RHD) are about the driver's mirror. The more frequent closing of the driver's door relaxes the spring over time. :thumb:

FredBloggs
Joined: Fri 24 Nov, 2006 20:42
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  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Ilminster

Post by FredBloggs »

A tip for BonBon. You may find you have a problem using the filler as you have. The spring also allows for the mirror to be swivelled towards the car in the case of a minor knock. If its solid it may break the mirror mounting. The spring is kept under pressure by a large clip washer. I found by fitting the right size socket (as in socket set) over the top of the washer you can tap the washer down using a mallet and put the spring back under tension. You do have to take the whole mirror assembly and wiring apart to do this though.
Freddie B

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cowboybebop
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 21:54
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
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Post by cowboybebop »

I have the same problem with my passenger side mirror, and it makes sense now that it is the spring inside.

so did this completely stop the vibration after tapping the washer down?

i may give this ago at weekend if its works

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BonBon
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Post by BonBon »

For the benefit of those who want to go Freddie's way, I have an old picture of the flex washer.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... CF1126.jpg
I assume you recommend to support the flex washer from underneath and tap the top collar of the core which sits inside the spring. It should work for a while- although with the putty approach I don't think I'll ever need to go in there again - and I'm not sure that upon any significant impact the swivel mechanism would ever have worked before the mirror smashed.
Anything to stop friggin vibration :bounce:

FredBloggs
Joined: Fri 24 Nov, 2006 20:42
Posts: 29

  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Ilminster

Post by FredBloggs »

Cowboybebop/Bonbon.
Just realised a slight technical problem. The inside of my mirrors are of a different design to yours!
In the picture http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... CF1138.jpg
the cylindrical tube the spring sits over (and the wire passes through) is the other way round. The washer is on the top and is inside the mirror, not underneath. This may explain why I am able to tighten it up.I dont know if it can be done if its underneath? I found that if I supported the flanged end of the tube (underneath the base of the mirror on my z) I could tap the washer dowm quite easily.
Good luck either way but do be extra careful.
Remember the majority of the framework is an alloy and prettty fragile. You may actually find that the vibration is caused by the alloy frame being damaged inside the mirror housing.
I dont suffer from any mirror vibration (just seats that slide which I'm replacing the bushes this weekend if it stops raining long enough).
Freddie B

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BonBon
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Wing mirror vibration

Post by BonBon »

My mirror finally could not be revived with additional epoxy.
So finally bit the bullet and got an x8R plastic mount:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-BMW-Z3-E ... 2749.l2649
Did a search as the fit was not snug - and completely forgot that I shaved down the supports 13 years ago. I'll be super careful shaving the plastic.
The car is lasting longer than my memory :squeeze:
It's still fun.
New engine, gearbox - pretty much everything.... supported by dear friends in the UK (and the ROW)

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