Won't start!

UK forum for general and technical discussion about the Z3 roadster
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ZedMatt
Joined: Thu 11 Oct, 2007 06:57
Posts: 48

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Won't start!

Post by ZedMatt »

Was so excited about getting the Z ready for the summer and now I'm dreading the bill! :head:

Put on charge the other day so that I could drive down to the MOT yesterday, but don't think I put it on early enough as it wouldn't start. So exchanged for a friend's battery to get it out of the garage to try and jump. Started fine, run for 20 minutes. Exchanged the batteries again to try the jump and was no good. Fine, new battery needed I thought.

Garage came out with a starter pack and engine was turning over, but no start. Interestingly the temp gauge was reading V Hot.

Had to tow it off to the garage for the MOT in the end (not a great start). They've checked the fuses to no avail and have a sparky coming later to try to see what's wrong.


Any ideas :?: :bawl:
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motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
Posts: 728

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Earthing?

Post by motco »

I know it's a very different animal, but I have very similar symptoms on my Pinto engined Westfield. The battery doesn't seem to charge although the alternator has been reconditioned, the temperature gauge reads much higher than it should but the electric cooling fan doesn't cut in, and the Omex rev limiter misbehaves and causes serious misfires. It being a fibreglass bodied kitcar the earthing is always suspect and I have to disconnect and re-make all the major earth connections to the engine/chassis in a hope of a cure. Where this helps you I don't know, but in my experience two electrical problems occurring simultaneously is very suspect. :|
ZedMatt
Joined: Thu 11 Oct, 2007 06:57
Posts: 48

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Post by ZedMatt »

So you think it could be something as simple as earthing?

Also, strangely the leccy windows aren't working even with doors open and ignition on.
Mike Fishwick
Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
Posts: 2093

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Daglan, France

Battery

Post by Mike Fishwick »

It could be that the battery has a short-circuited cell - typical damage due to being neglected over the winter and discharging totally. This will wreck a battery.

This would mean it is converted into a flat 10 volt battery, so would draw a lot of current. If the garage's starter pack was not in the best of health it would not maintain a decent voltage while cranking, and the ECU gremlins would stay in hibernation.

But - all this is guesswork - you need to measure the battery voltage, then charge it for a day, then measure it again, before any meainingful diagnosis can be made.
ZedMatt
Joined: Thu 11 Oct, 2007 06:57
Posts: 48

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Post by ZedMatt »

Latest news was ECU trouble. They've stuck a new battery in so shouldn't be that anymore and checked all the earths. Trying to get them back on the phone to try and get some of this good weekend weather :head:





Got hold of them...

some internals of the ECU have been fried from a "power spike" caused during changing the battery (when I did it).

Choices - send ECU off to be repaired £350 or order new one ~£700

:cry:

Sound reasonable? Anyone else had a similar scenario? Could it have been caused by trying to start it on the jump pack?
estocks
Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 23:36
Posts: 2866

  Not specified

Post by estocks »

Get the part number and get a used E36 ECU for £30 on eBay.
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Use the Search button before posting newbie questions about hard tops and fitting kits, footwell speaker amps, water in the boot, hood maintainance and those horrific angel eyes. We get like 10 threads a week on the same subject, it's obvious that you haven't searched.
Mike Fishwick
Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
Posts: 2093

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Daglan, France

Spike

Post by Mike Fishwick »

I would be inclined to suspect that the garage's starter pack caused the problem - maybe it was set on 24 volts . . .
ZedMatt
Joined: Thu 11 Oct, 2007 06:57
Posts: 48

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Post by ZedMatt »

I did consider whether the the power pack could have been the issue, but it's difficult to apportion blame. Why would it have a 24v setting though? Is it possible that changing the battery can cause this issue? It just seems absurd that such a simple procedure can cause such an expensive fault. Am I just unlucky?
estocks
Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 23:36
Posts: 2866

  Not specified

Post by estocks »

A power surge from a massive jump starting box capable of surging hunderes of amps could easily damage an ECU.
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Use the Search button before posting newbie questions about hard tops and fitting kits, footwell speaker amps, water in the boot, hood maintainance and those horrific angel eyes. We get like 10 threads a week on the same subject, it's obvious that you haven't searched.
Mike Fishwick
Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
Posts: 2093

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Daglan, France

Power Pack

Post by Mike Fishwick »

A lot of commercial-type power packs have a 24 volt setting for use on light trucks etc.

Did it plug into the mains, or was it self-contained? Ther are lots of permutations, but the power pack start is the favourite.

Anyway - hopefully you have learnt the hard way that neglecting your battery over the winter is not a good idea - would you neglect any other part of the car in this way? Of course not, but so many owners do, and just forget about their battery. Read my bit on battery maintenance in the Z3 Knowledgebase.

Now buy yourself an automatic battery charger, and plug it in tothe cigar lighter whenever the car is not to be used for more than a day. Also top up the cells every three months or so. £50 on a Gunsons charger from German & Swedish is a lot less than buying a new battery every couple of years!

My 1998 2.8 still has its original battery, which works like it was new, but it leads a pampered life.
ZedMatt
Joined: Thu 11 Oct, 2007 06:57
Posts: 48

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Post by ZedMatt »

Wasn't a plugged in power pack.

I have a c-tek charger/ conditioner, but not too happy leaving it plugged in for months in the garage. I know the fire risk should be negligible, but still. Definitely should have had it on charge for a week or so before MOT time.

There are many expensive lessons I have learned here :dunce:. Thanks for the help and insight, I will repay with lovely pics in a couple of weeks if I don't have to sell my camera :roll: :lol:
Mr Silver
Joined: Wed 25 Feb, 2009 09:34
Posts: 360

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Post by Mr Silver »

Garage mechanic should know better that jump starting one of our cars. This will not do it any good (24v or otherwise). Just buy a new one.

Who would buy a battery that requires maintenance today? So much tosh! If it goes down it will be replaced under guarantee (in its time frame of course). Trickle charge it if you wish (especially if not garaged). Funny how some people see the need to pamper a battery that's long past it's sell-by date (and old technology)!
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Robert T
Site Admin
Joined: Mon 12 Jun, 2006 10:35
Posts: 10170

  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Post by Robert T »

Um, it is my understanding that the ONLY way to start our cars is by jump starting - they should never be BUMP started - this is why we have a jump start point under the bonnet. If done with the correct equipment it should not do any harm.

The batteries on the zeds usually have stickers over the top up plugs, so they can have the electrolyte topped up. New batteries just don't seem to be designed to have the life of the old ones - I heard a bloke from the AA recommending that we should all change our batteries every 2 years - I nearly spat my coffee all over the telly. :evil:

My battery is now in it's 9th year and has never been trickle charged - for the simple reason that I have no electricity in my garage and no possibility of putting it in either - Mike seems to forget this situation sometimes - my solution is simply to drive it regularly!

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Mike Fishwick
Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
Posts: 2093

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Daglan, France

Maintenance

Post by Mike Fishwick »

People are so used to the idea of planned obselecence these days. There is nothing wrong with a battery which needs maintenance -and many 'Low maintenance' batteries do need it - maybe once a year, but they do need it. A 'Zero Maintenance' battery is a different thing.

Just because the filler plugs have a bit of tape over them does not mean it's a zero-maintenance type. Anyway - we accept (I hope) the need to maintain our engine, so why not the battery?

If you look at the warranty card which comes with a new battery, it specifically excludes damage caused by deep discharges of the type we are discussing here. Connection to a float charger for the winter is simply a form of maintenance, and it beats the idea of just waiting around for your battery to fail (usually with inconvenience and additional expense) in the hope that its warranty will kick in.

On a BMW you have the added risk of the Service Indicator batteries fully discharging too. They are charged frm the vehicle battery, but are not intended to be so charged from a discharged condition, which can cause long-term damage to the batteries and often their printed circuit board too.

I guess I'm out of step with our brave new world, where lots of people are incapable of doing anything practical, and make some kind of virtue from it, thinking that they can repair any problem by brandishing a mobile phone and a credit card. Just wait until your disposable income falls!
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