Side lights / parking lights in headlamp

Ferdinand · Post by **Ferdinand** » Wed 11 Jul, 2012 05:13

Hello everyone!

I'm thinking about installing side lights / parking lights in headlamp unit - I've read someehere that it was standard on early models, but they were then moved to the bumpers which I have on mine already.
I'm thinking about this modification because I use the sidelights and front fog lights as DRL's

I seem to remember having read that someone installed Side lights / parking lights in the highbeam unit, but I've looked and looked and now I can't find it again

There is a blank space in the headlamp, so it is "sort of" ready for the installation . but I'm a bit unsure about how to do the electrics so that it will be "correct"

Do BMW make a kit for this "operation" or which parts will I need to make this look original??

A link, hint or advice would be much appreciated

To avoid any confusion, Ferdinand lives in Denmark and the Laws regarding lighting are different to the UK - Gazza. 15/07/2012.

baretto · Post by **baretto** » Thu 12 Jul, 2012 12:22

I have an older Z3 with sidelights in the headlight as standard, but facelift headlights, so I had to do this modification myself.
If you look at the back of the headlight near the top there is a small round plastic circle that you can drill out and behind that is the holder for the sidelight.
You don't need to wire anything up but you do need two candlesticks which hold the bulb in place inside the headlight which i assume you could get from RealOEM. Shouldn't be expensive.

Ferdinand · Post by **Ferdinand** » Thu 12 Jul, 2012 15:36

So you mean that the wiring is already there??? Al I need to do is drill a hole and buy a

baretto · Post by **baretto** » Thu 12 Jul, 2012 18:54

Just had a look at my headlights as a reminder
If you look at the back of the right headlight, there is a small circle to the top right of the where the main beam bulb is located. Drill that hole out.

Look at this

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=63&fg=05

See part 8 - Bulb socket, you need two of those, they are only $9.
The bulb fits into the bulb socket, and you then push the bulb socket into the hole you drilled and it will clip in place. Your existing sidelights connections will then fit into the back of the bulb socket. Job done. Make sure your existing wiring will reach that part of the headlight though

Ferdinand · Post by **Ferdinand** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 00:55

But with this modification - wont I just move the current sidelights from the bumper into the headlight - I want 4 sidelights - not move them

baretto · Post by **baretto** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 08:24

Oh right. In that case then you are going to need additional wiring then, not sure how to do that as I just moved my lights from the side to the headlight

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 09:45

With all the new cars having DRLs, and lots of people using dipped beams in daytime (to look as if they have a new car!) we are getting tothe stage where anyone involved in an accident who is not using DRLs or dipped beams will automatically be considered as culpable. This means that fitting some kind of DRL is becoming a worthwhile thing to do.

The use of foglamps in conditons of good visibility - as you plan to do when using them as DRLs - is against the law, probably the Road Vehicles (Lighting) Regs. You will be making yourself a target for any poilceman who is trying to make up his quota for the day.

Although a good headlamp-mounted parking light (particularly if fited with a 20 watt halogen bulb) looks like a DRL, it remains, in law, a parking lamp. Imagine an opposing insurance company using this fact after an accident.

A better and completely legal alternative is to use the BMW DRL relay unit, which replaces the main beam relay with an electronic unit which feeds the main beams with reduced voltage, so making them into DRLs, which is Type Approved for the purpose. I have been trying to get round to this for ages, but fortunately rural France is not full new cars with DRLs, so it is a low-priority job - maybe during in the winter.

For details see:

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/electr ... ights.html

Ferdinand · Post by **Ferdinand** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 11:15

Hi Mike,

I've been using sidelights along with front fog light for ages in my Z3 and it is NOT illegal anywhere in the EU. But using low beams and front fogs combined in normal weather conditions is illegal however - and blinding everybody

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 11:41

You may not have come across a keen policemen, but several forces have targeted use of foglamps in conditions of good visibility. Just because your foglamps are being used in conjunction with parking lights does not reduce the potential glare they can produce when the car goes over a speed bump or the crest of a hill. Yes - I know that lots of people think that they can use foglamps to show that they are driving at what they consider as 'fast' but it does not change the fact that such a lamp - aimed roughly parallel with the road - can dazzle oncoming drivers even in daytime. If foglamps were a good substitute for DRLs, why do all modern cars have to be fitted with seperate DRLs?

Post by **Robert T** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 12:13

Dipped headlights are just that - they are aimed at least 2% down from horizontal and should not dazzle anybody. I don't believe there are any such aim requirements for foglights, as they are just that, fog lights, designed to be used in fog to find the edges of the road when your main beams would be reflected straight back at you. I honestly don't see how it can become a requirement for cars built without DRLs to suddenly have to have DRLs - after all I don't have to have seatbelts in my Sprite, as they were not required when it was built - if you want to fit them, then fair enough, but I don't see it becoming a "requirement", as it would be a retrospective act. If you are doing this, then dim dip does sound like a good idea, as it will prolong the life of the bulbs, compared to using normal dip all the time. As to the modern cars with DRLs, I actually find them a distraction, particularly the Audi LED fairly lights, as I find myself looking at them and not for example the bicycle just in front. They also refract horribly if you wear glasses like me.

Cheers R.

Ferdinand · Post by **Ferdinand** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 13:21

Well actually there's no "requirement" for DRL's - It all started with the 4 x 0 aka Audi... They came with these stupis looking light stripes that everybody is copying nowadays... But it's something "extra" that you yourself choose to buy - ofcourse depending on model etc.

Many modern cars come without LED DRL's and use a regular halogen bulb as DRL's.

As I don't want the low beam lens in my headlights to become brown and ugly I decided to use the front fog lights instead... Have checked with "the boys in blue" and they and the local MOT-office both say it's perfectly OK within all of the EU..... I already knew that in advance but just wanted to be 100% sure....

Whether people like it or not - it's legal

The arguement about they blind - well I have my own professionel Hella beamsetter that I use 1-2 times a year or if I have to change a bulb....

The reason why most people are blinded is because they look into the oncoming trafic and their headlights....

Now that' s their own fault

Will go home from work soon - and maybe blind a few other motorists with my dangerous front fogs ....

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 15:44

While I do not wish to start an impassioned argument about the merits or otherwise of using foglamps as DRLs, I suggest that you have a look at this:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/travelandtr ... /dg_070302

With reference to the Highway Code, it clearly states:

114
You MUST NOT
· use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226)

I appreciate that a lot of people prefer to make up their own rules, but if you want to stay within the law, the use of foglamps as DRLs seems pretty clear. Yes – many drivers use them in conditions of good visibility, a practice which seems to have become accepted, but that does not mean it is always wise, considerate, or legal.

Rather than leap into such an area, I prefer the idea of running the main beams at very low power, which offers practical advantages, does not reduce bulb life, and stays within the law.

Geoff H · Post by **Geoff H** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 17:04

Mike Fishwick wrote:While I do not wish to start an impassioned argument about the merits or otherwise of using foglamps as DRLs, I suggest that you have a look at this:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/travelandtr ... /dg_070302

With reference to the Highway Code, it clearly states:

114
You MUST NOT
· use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226)

I appreciate that a lot of people prefer to make up their own rules, but if you want to stay within the law, the use of foglamps as DRLs seems pretty clear. Yes – many drivers use them in conditions of good visibility, a practice which seems to have become accepted, but that does not mean it is always wise, considerate, or legal.

Rather than leap into such an area, I prefer the idea of running the main beams at very low power, which offers practical advantages, does not reduce bulb life, and stays within the law.

Mike, I don't think those rules will affect him as it looks like he lives in Denmark

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Fri 13 Jul, 2012 22:44

Ferdinand wrote: Will go home from work soon - and maybe blind a few other motorists with my dangerous front fogs ....

You asked for peoples help & advice I dont think there was any need for sarcasm

Heath on Tapatalk

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Sat 14 Jul, 2012 08:10

Cornish Colin does seem to have some kind of grudge against me, doesn't he? Perhaps I have met him in the south-west, but as it is eight years since I lived in that wet little place, and he lacks the courage to do more than hide behind a pseudonym while making his usual snide comments I really don't know - or care.

Perhaps if he should work on both his courage and spelling ability ('no it all?').

No matter what his pathetic grudge, I shall continue to offer my opinions and advice, which is what this forum is for - rather than being a platform for those amongst us who have nothing better to do than harbour a grudge of some kind, and are unable to contribute to the discussion.

Once again Cornish Colin - please remember the conditions (no personal attacks etc) which you agreed to when joining this forum. You may have conveniently forgotton, but I'm sure the moderators have not.

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Sat 14 Jul, 2012 10:08

Lol there is not much of an argument here and I dont see how anyone could deem mikes comments in this thread as being unreasonable.

There there are some facts here which you cannot get away from ie using foglights as DRL in the UK is illegal so the statement that you can use them anywhere in the EU in this way is incorrect and secondly to do so is dangerous and inconsiderate to other road users (hence why it is banned in the UK ) . The fact other countries have not banned it does not change this fact.

Look into the DRL relay which is a popular mod in the US and BMW produce it for those countries where DRL is the norm / compulsory.

XVar · Post by **XVar** » Sat 14 Jul, 2012 10:53

If you use your foglights at any time other than when visibility is less than a few hundred meters, you're a tw*t in my book. As for DRLs, it's just another instance of european laws being forced upon us for no good reason. I'm sure in Norway where it's dark 90% of the day in some parts of the year, DRLs are a fantastic idea, but here they're just plain annoying and most implementations look awful (see the Range Rover fairy lights for a good example). Sorry, rant over

OldskoolRS · Post by **OldskoolRS** » Sat 14 Jul, 2012 11:41

Slight off topic, but the DRLs on certain Mercedes and Citroen (D3?) models look like really cheap aftermarket lights have been stuck on by some misguided modder (IMHO). I certainly wouldn't want to modify my Z3 to look anything like one of those cars with their DRLs.

Maybe it's my age, but I just don't 'get' the obsession some have today about lights (including angel eye upgrades and Zenons on new cars). I've never had an issue with not being able to see where I'm driving at night even when I had my first Mk2 Escort. If it's really foggy then no amount of extra lights will help as much as simply slowing down...

PCSAM · Post by **PCSAM** » Sat 14 Jul, 2012 13:36

OldskoolRS wrote:Slight off topic, but the DRLs on certain Mercedes and Citroen (D3?) models look like really cheap aftermarket lights have been stuck on by some misguided modder (IMHO). I certainly wouldn't want to modify my Z3 to look anything like one of those cars with their DRLs.

Maybe it's my age, but I just don't 'get' the obsession some have today about lights (including angel eye upgrades and Zenons on new cars). I've never had an issue with not being able to see where I'm driving at night even when I had my first Mk2 Escort. If it's really foggy then no amount of extra lights will help as much as simply slowing down...

couldn't resist .....................

Ferdinand · Post by **Ferdinand** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 01:36

Jonttt wrote:Lol there is not much of an argument here and I dont see how anyone could deem mikes comments in this thread as being unreasonable.

There there are some facts here which you cannot get away from ie using foglights as DRL in the UK is illegal so the statement that you can use them anywhere in the EU in this way is incorrect and secondly to do so is dangerous and inconsiderate to other road users (hence why it is banned in the UK ) . The fact other countries have not banned it does not change this fact.

Look into the DRL relay which is a popular mod in the US and BMW produce it for those countries where DRL is the norm / compulsory.

To XVar: So you think I'm a Tw*t huhhhh - wow... What a grown up and mature comment....

To Jonttt
So just because something is illegal in the UK makes it dangerous and inconsiderate everywhere else... Using front fogs is perfectly legal here in Denmark and as long as it is - I'll keep using them as DRL's... My front fogs are intentionally adjusted to point downwards so that they can be used as DRL's - i.e they don't blind anyone - I'm not interested in annoying other motorists.

What is it that you all apparantly don't understand..... It's perfectly legal here so I'm not breakning any laws here - and the car passes its MOT every 2 years easily...
Just because you have some funny rule in the UK doesn't make it illegal everywhere else...
My car is legal here and everywhere else too in the EU.

Lots of rules are different: You Brits have to tell your insurance company if you use a different kind af brake pads - and have a personal insurance so that you can drive a car even though you don't own it . - where's the logic in that??? Here I can drive any car I'd like as long as the car is insured and taxed....
And why are spacers illegal here and legal somewhere else?
In Germany your car has to have a polution sticker in the windscreen (Feinstaubplakette)- in the lower left corner (LHD) - according to Danish legislation this sticker has to sit in the lower right corner - Why??? I bought mine in Germany at TÜV and therefore it is mounted "German way" - Is that dangerous and am now putting other peoples life at risk for this reason too???

- Just a few examples that tells you that rules aren't the same all over the EU - and thank God for that!!!

My comment about blinding on my way home was a joke - So Heath and Co. - Have some humour for God's sake...

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 11:22

Sorry i did not realise the UK was not in the EU anymore

It does not really matter that your fog lights will dazzle other drivers even if pointing at the floor in wet conditions. They are simply not designed to be used as DRLs but its obvious no one will change your opinion on that. At least i wont be driving past you.

XVar · Post by **XVar** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 11:34

Ferdinand wrote:To XVar: So you think I'm a Tw*t huhhhh - wow... What a grown up and mature comment....

Perhaps I didn't consider the law/culture differences in your country, so in that respect I apologise. But if I saw you driving towards me in the UK with fog lights on in high visibility then yes, that's exactly what I'd think. More often than not it's a Corsa/Saxo with a badly fitted body kit, driven by someone who's been playing too much Need for Speed - it's just grown to be one of my pet hates.

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 13:55

To avoid any confusion, Ferdinand lives in Denmark and the Laws regarding lighting are different to the UK - Gazza

mfcmick · Post by **mfcmick** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 14:10

Gazza wrote:To avoid any confusion, Ferdinand lives in Denmark and the Laws regarding lighting are different to the UK - Gazza

Gazza,i was amused at the spate between Fishwick & cornish colin but you seem to have removed the comments. It quite clearly states that Ferdinand lives in Denmark but it seems no one is allowed to question mike fishwick and his nasty comments.Is there one rule for him and another rule for everyone else.

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 15:29

mfcmick wrote:
Gazza wrote:To avoid any confusion, Ferdinand lives in Denmark and the Laws regarding lighting are different to the UK - Gazza

Gazza,i was amused at the spate between Fishwick & cornish colin but you seem to have removed the comments. It quite clearly states that Ferdinand lives in Denmark but it seems no one is allowed to question mike fishwick and his nasty comments.Is there one rule for him and another rule for everyone else.

The same rules apply to everyone. The posts were removed in the interests of harmony.

It wasn't clear in the first post that Ferdinand lived in Denmark, it does show on the right hand side of the post but not everyone reads every single word on the page hence my comments in red.

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 15:42

I was not aware that I had been making any 'Nasty' comments, but if you feel I have done so, please feel free to take the matter up - with examples NOT taken out of context - with the moderators. I'm sure that certain people spend their lives trying to interpret my comments as something to complain about.

And no - I did not notice the Danish flag etc in the RH side of the post, probably because I tend to automatically discount brightly coloured decoration such as emoticons, ornate signature blocks etc. although my eye is automatically drawn to the more dreadful examples of spelling and grammar . . . oops - in some people's eyes that must make me a snob!

mfcmick · Post by **mfcmick** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 16:01

Mike Fishwick wrote:I was not aware that I had been making any 'Nasty' comments, but if you feel I have done so, please feel free to take the matter up - with examples NOT taken out of context - with the moderators. I'm sure that certain people spend their lives trying to interpret my comments as something to complain about.

And no - I did not notice the Danish flag etc in the RH side of the post, probably because I tend to automatically discount brightly coloured decoration such as emoticons, ornate signature blocks etc. although my eye is automatically drawn to the more dreadful examples of spelling and grammar . . . oops - in some people's eyes that must make me a snob!

You said it!

bowei001 · Post by **bowei001** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 17:08

Gentlemen, please, is it possible to put this topic to bed without further bickering? In the UK it is illegal to use your foglights except in adverse conditions therefore they cannot, legally, be used as DRLs. Any British or foreign national using them as DRLs in the UK is breaking the law but will, most probably, get away with it because the police have, for better or worse, more important things to do. If, however you get stopped by them be prepared to do some explaining and hope they are feeling generous. If I drive in France and don't have a high vis jacket for each person inside the car (and now, it seems, a couple of approved breathalyser kits), and get stopped by the boys in (French) blue they are going to fine me on the spot even though the jackets and breathalyser are not mandatory in the UK. Different laws apply in different countries even within the EU; we just need to be aware of it and ACCEPT it.

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 18:45

Gazza wrote:To avoid any confusion, Ferdinand lives in Denmark and the Laws regarding lighting are different to the UK - Gazza

No confusion as i know the OP does not live in the uk. I was simply making some factual comments ie the OP cannot use fog lights across the EU legally as he had stated several times and that it is not a good idea to do so whether it is legal or not.

Also i do not see how mikes comments can be deemed as being out of order. The OP posted in an open forum so you have to expect differences in opinion. In this case i struggle to understand however how anyone can think using fog lights as DRLs can be a good idea and mike identified BMWs own solution to do this properly.

gookah · Post by **gookah** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 19:39

Mike Fishwick wrote:although my eye is automatically drawn to the more dreadful examples of spelling and grammar . . . oops - in some people's eyes that must make me a snob!

Mike Fishwick wrote: You may have conveniently forgotton,

It's actually spelt .....'forgotten'

mfcmick · Post by **mfcmick** » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 19:49

gookah wrote:
Mike Fishwick wrote:although my eye is automatically drawn to the more dreadful examples of spelling and grammar . . . oops - in some people's eyes that must make me a snob!

Mike Fishwick wrote: You may have conveniently forgotton,

It's actually spelt .....'forgotten'

nice one gookah.

Ferdinand · Post by **Ferdinand** » Mon 16 Jul, 2012 04:20

Jonttt wrote:cannot use fog lights across the EU legally as he had stated several times and that it is not a good idea to do so whether it is legal or not.

And why is it then that I get a totally different message from MOT here i DK?? They tell me, that if my light are adjusted downwards they are ok and perfectly legal to use as DRL all over the EU. but when adjusted as front fogs - I can have problems since some countries have other rules.....

I'm not trying to split hairs Jonttt - But please understand that I have to believe what the "system" tells me - MOT, Police and MOT-test all say the same.

I agre with all of you that using front fogs as DRL can blind other people - and that is F.ckin' annoying - but when taking appropriate precausions - thay can be used without anyone being affected in a negative way - I have considered the realy from BMW. but was told that the there's no rear light on - and yes I know that I don't need to have them on in the daytine - but i thinhk it looks daft only have the front lights on and I also feel a bit safer with lights on in both ends of the car.

I've been looking for prober DRL lights ever since I bought the car but haven't found any that I like - so I therefore use the front fogs.... You're all free to feel what ever you like about that... But please remember - Rules here are different - for now at least... and should they at some time be changed - I'll "adjust" and act according to the rules

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Mon 16 Jul, 2012 09:15

I have never claimed perfection, but I do know the difference between BMWs and BMW's, not to mention 'Know' and,'No' 'Concours' and 'Concourse' etc!

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Mon 16 Jul, 2012 09:19

GENTLEMEN, PLEASE ENOUGH ALREADY

amancuso · Post by **amancuso** » Thu 19 Jul, 2012 01:51

I don't know if this is legal over there, but here in the US our side indicators are on all the time. When you turn your side blinker on, a 2nd filament illuminates and blinks.

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Thu 19 Jul, 2012 08:04

That setup is illegal here in the UK, Orange front lights are not permitted except for the indicator.

The setup as you describe is the same on my Americana although when the headlights are switched on the Orange sidelights are turned off, this is how I use the lights to avoid the attention of the Boys in Blue. Modern American cars in the UK have to go through a IVA test to certify compliance with UK rules.

amancuso · Post by **amancuso** » Thu 19 Jul, 2012 11:30

Gazza wrote:That setup is illegal here in the UK, Orange front lights are not permitted except for the indicator.

The setup as you describe is the same on my Americana although when the headlights are switched on the Orange sidelights are turned off, this is how I use the lights to avoid the attention of the Boys in Blue. Modern American cars in the UK have to go through a IVA test to certify compliance with UK rules.

Ahhh, gotta love international rules. I think they reason they are required here is as a back up for headlight failure, this way you are more "visible" sort of like daytime running lights. (Don't ask why someone would drive without headlights, it's ridiculous, but I've seen people do it in urban areas, and then get ticketed for it)

pedro20001 · Post by **pedro20001** » Sat 19 Apr, 2014 16:03

just wanted to reopen this thread - decided to have a go today on my 2001 facelift; only took about 1 hour, start to finish

. nice and simple to remove the headlamps 4 screws ( thanks guys for pics!) and used a wood chisel to carefully remove the moulded cap and then tapped off the bumper marker lights and fitted 5w capless bulb holders into the main beam unit and voila!! a nice saturday afternoon job....now time for a beer

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