ABS lights - frustration!

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MikeR
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ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Sun 23 Sep, 2012 19:28

Hi folks
Yes, I've got the dreaded ABS lights on the dashboard. I've had this before and resolved the issue with the usual cleaning/replacing of the sensors. Recently however things have got worse (an intermitent fault) which resulted in me taking the car into my friendly BMW workshop. They used the diagnostics and came back with Front Right Sensor fault and ABS Pump fault. I dealt with the sensor by replacing it which resulted in the dashboard lights going out - success I thought, BUT 1 week later and the lights are now back on. So I'm down to sorting the next bit............

Could it be the ABS Pump Relay????? lots of posts on this but there doesn't appear to be one on my car.

Next step the ABS Pump/Control unit? Armed with the part number (34 51-1164896) from the pump on my car I called in at my main BMW dealer to ask the price. The part is not listed anywhere on the BMW system and when searching via my VIN a completely different number came back.... and the cost £1800!!!

Looks like I'll be looking at a secondhand part (if I can get one?) or having my unit refurbished.

Has anyone had experience of this? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers
MikeR

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Robert T
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Sun 23 Sep, 2012 19:38

Hi Mike. Did Steve charge you for the diagnostic? I saw your car in there the other day when I went to pick some bits up. I now have a diagnostic lead, so if you need codes reading again, then just let me know.

I can't believe that is the price of just the pump - if it was Steve, then I trust him for finding stuff, as he has hunted things down for me before, but that does seem extortionate. Can you confirm the build date of your zed for me and I'll take a look. I'm thinking that your cheapest route it to get an ABS unit from a breaker and try it to see if it fixes the problem, as whilst the warning light is on, you have no ABS (or ASC, but that is less important).

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Ian_C
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Ian_C » Sun 23 Sep, 2012 20:52

I had the ABS pump repaired/reconditioned here when it failed on my Audi A6. Great service and at a fraction of the cost of a new pump module. I'm not affiliated to the company, just a satisfied customer.

HTH
Current...1998 ///M Coupe
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Previously...1997 Z3 2.8
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MikeR
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Sun 23 Sep, 2012 22:38

Hi Robert & others

Thanks for coming back to me.
Yes, Steve did charge me for the diagnostics (£45) and promised to clear the fault codes if I went back having done the work. As it was the lights went out and I thought I was home and dry with the system clearing itself. That was a week ago and now the lights are back on again. The build date on my car is December 1998 but registered March 1999 and the VIN LD87066.

I have seen a pump unit on eBay with the same part number as that on the car so I might go for that or I might get mine reconditioned - thanks for the recommendation, myredz.p

MikeR

Keynun
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Keynun » Sun 23 Sep, 2012 22:48

I had a similar problem with my 1999 e36 coupe. The code was an ABS front sensor & pump, changed the front sensor for a Febi unit, still the same problem. I then did a little research and found out that the ABS/ASC module may go bad on these, which can be reconditioned (I don't quite know what module you have, but you should look into that).

I managed to get a recon pump + module unit for £11 (lucky win tbh) and it sorted out the problem!!!

In an unrelated story, I have since crashed the car and written it off, the ABS unit comically packed up and started buzzing away when I disconnected the battery whilst the car was running after the crash (I wanted the battery, it was new :wink:).

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Robert T
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Sun 23 Sep, 2012 23:01

Well this is the page I get for your car:

Image
Hydro unit abs/asc+t - BMW parts catalog

Part number according to that is 34.51.1.164.333 (old part number 34.51.1.162.665). Coopers are quoting a price of £1,119.72 for this. Nothing listed on BMMiniparts, but it may be worth asking them for a price. Doesn't look to be something carried by either GSF or Eurocarparts either.

I will see if I can check the part number on the unit on my car for you tomorrow - it should be the same as mine is 01/99 built.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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MikeR
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Mon 24 Sep, 2012 17:18

Hi Robert

That illustration is nothing like my unit. When I did a search I found alternatives and part no. 34516756287 looks like mine. I have heard however that when replacing the ABS pump and control units the part number is critical. If you get a similar part with a different number it will need re-programming? Think I might go for a reconditioning of my old unit - cost appears to be around £200 which is better than £1100 (half the probable value of the car!)
I'd be interested to know what part number yours is as I guess that our cars came off the assembly line at the same time.

To keynun....... you got a bargain there!!!!

Cheers
Mike

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Robert T
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Mon 24 Sep, 2012 18:11

The pictures on RealOEM/BMWFans are often generics, so it doesn't necessarily mean that that is what they think it looks like!

This is mine:

Image

Part number on pump is 34.51.1.164.896:

Image

Part number of control module is 34.51.1.164.897:

Image

Just had another go with my VIN in BMWFans and there is another diagram, showing what would appear to be our ASC+T unit:

Image
ASC hydro unit/control unit/support - BMW parts catalog

This would confirm that the current part number is the one you mentioned above. I now have no idea what the first diagram relates to! :lol:

Cheers R.

Sent from my Galaxy SII using Tapatalk 2
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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MikeR
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Mon 24 Sep, 2012 19:53

Yes, Robert - your ABS pump and modulator is the same as mine. Well done taking the pics - I can even read that the control box is made in Mexico!!!!! Seems a bit odd to me as Mexico doesn't strike me as being a key player in the automotive parts industry!
I'll let you know how I get on whenever done a bit more digging!

Mike

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Robert T
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Mon 24 Sep, 2012 20:10

Yeah, that one had me puzzled too! Maybe that's the problem with yours... it's gone for a siesta! :lol:

I was quite impressed with the pics, considering they were taken on my phone! Much better than my previous one and not far off the quality of my normal camera.

Let me know if you need anything. New lead should be quite capable of reading and clearing error codes.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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geminimustang
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by geminimustang » Mon 24 Sep, 2012 20:18


MikeR
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Mon 24 Sep, 2012 21:58

Thanks geminimustang......... I've spotted a couple of use units with my part number on ebay. Typical cost is £60 - £80 but as these are from breakers I'm still tempted to bit the bullet and get mine reconditioned and tested. Before I do that I might well take up your offer, Robert, and have another look at the codes if that's OK.

Cheers
MikeR

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Robert T
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Mon 24 Sep, 2012 22:36

Not a problem, Mike. Just let me know when. Can do it at either yours or mine.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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DomS
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by DomS » Tue 02 Oct, 2012 22:00

Mike/Robert,

Did you manage to get any further with this?

I have had a similar fault (DSC/ABS lights on) for some time and should get back to trying to resolve it. My car's been SORN'd for a while as I know it will fail the MoT with this fault, so I used this as an excuse to get my other car back on the road this summer! :roll:

I want to try and get this problem sorted before taking it for an MoT. I have loaded INPA software on a laptop and successfully communicated with the engine module, but to communicate with the ABS module on my car (Z3 3.0 06/2000), I believe it is necessary to use the 20-pin round connector, with the ADS interface (not ODB2) and a serial port (not USB) on the PC.

Despite setting that up on the PC, it still cannot communicate with the ABS module, so I still don't know what the "official" fault code/report is. There's a wealth of knowledge on setting up INPA diagnostic software and associated cables on the Web, but it's a bit of a minefield and I'm tempted to try the BMTechnic setup (used by others here recently), as everything is supplied by them and more importantly, the support sounds good too.

As a bit of background, my ABS lights were intermittent, then eventually permanently on.

What I've done:
- Cleaned the rear wheel speed sensors and checked their resistance (all seems fine)
- Replaced the front sensors (as they were seized in and I had to bash/drill them out to remove them!)
- Sent my ABS/DSC contol module into ecutesting.com for test/repair (they were only able to do limited testing on my unit and returned it having passed all their basic tests - and didn't charge me!)

What I need to do:
- Test continuity from control unit to all wheel sensors to rule out a broken cable (unlikely, but costs nothing)
- Re-run some INPA tests with 12V transformer connected to car or fully charged battery (as diag software apparently needs a very healthy power supply - ideally 12.5V minimum)
- Speak to BMTechnic to see if their kit is likely to communicate with my ABS module!
- More :rtm:

Robert, which diagnostic lead do you have and does it read the ABS module?

Cheers,
Dom

MikeR
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Tue 02 Oct, 2012 23:07

Hi Dom

The symptoms you have with your ABS sound remarkably like mine. You've gone one step further in getting your unit off to ECUtesting and you must be really frustrated in not having cleared the fault. Robert is hopefully going to be the wizard as we've planned to meet up this weekend to see what fault codes we can read. If it points to the pump and/or control module I'm intending sending the unit off to ECUtesting in the hope that they can rectify the problem - fingers crossed. No doubt Robert will put you in the picture on the technical bits and I'll certainly let you know how we get on at the weekend.

Cheers
Mike

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Brian H
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Brian H » Wed 03 Oct, 2012 07:39

DomS wrote:I believe it is necessary to use the 20-pin round connector, with the ADS interface (not ODB2) and a serial port (not USB) on the PC.

Despite setting that up on the PC, it still cannot communicate with the ABS module, so I still don't know what the "official" fault code/report is. There's a wealth of knowledge on setting up INPA diagnostic software and associated cables on the Web, but it's a bit of a minefield and I'm tempted to try the BMTechnic setup (used by others here recently), as everything is supplied by them and more importantly, the support sounds good too.
Hi Dom,

I too have the BMTechnic setup, I have found the OBDII port a little frustrating as the software will only connect with very few modules, I really now only use the 20 pin under the bonnet. I would have though that the 20pin connector and the OBDII port would share a common "communications bus" but it seems not, one thing I have noticed is that when using the OBDII port the software cannot recognise when I switch the ignition on.

My laptop uses a USB port for the connection lead with no problems.

Brian

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BladeRunner919
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by BladeRunner919 » Wed 03 Oct, 2012 08:30

Dom,

What happens when you try and connect INPA to the ABS, using the 20-pin connector? Do you get any errors/evidence of comms etc? I have successfully fixed an abs/asc problem on mine using INPA and DIS, so it can be done.

DomS
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by DomS » Thu 04 Oct, 2012 01:27

Gents,

Thanks for the replies.

I had an email from Chris at BMTechnic in response to a query and he confirmed exactly what I suspected re: Communicatiing with the ABS module (I hope he doesn't mind me quoting his reply).
  • The Z3 being based on the E36 series may require an ADS type interface in order to access all modules (the ABS being one of the affected modules) so we would advise that you check to see if there is any voltage on pin 15 of the round diagnostic connector in the engine bay when the ignition is switched on. If a voltage is present then you will require an ADS interface or if not then our Black Cable with 20 Pin Adaptor would be suitable. There is no real consistency to what build years have what type of modules so that is the only certain way to check.
  • All BM Technic cables packages are USB only. Should you need to purchase an ADS interface (we don't sell these but can recommend one) then you will require a real serial port.
[/i]

This information sounds spot on from what I have discovered in my hunting around. I was just hopeful they had found a way to tweak the software allowing me to communicate with my ABS module (via the ADS interface) using their package and a USB port - unfortunately not so. The kit they offer still sounds like an excellent package at a very good price and if I hadn't already got the software/cables separately, I'd happily get theirs. Actually I'm still tempted, as their software suite is pretty comprehensive and will be easier to install from scratch if I have to rebuild the laptop.

Using the ADS interface means using a "real" serial port (i.e. one where you can configure a specific I/O address). Of course not many PCs or laptops have a real serial port these days, so for a laptop it usually means getting something like a PCMCIA serial port card (as a USB to Serial Port lead generally won't work) and then setting it up correctly ...you can see it's no plug'n'play solution.
MikeR wrote:Hi Dom

The symptoms you have with your ABS sound remarkably like mine. You've gone one step further in getting your unit off to ECUtesting and you must be really frustrated in not having cleared the fault. Robert is hopefully going to be the wizard as we've planned to meet up this weekend to see what fault codes we can read. If it points to the pump and/or control module I'm intending sending the unit off to ECUtesting in the hope that they can rectify the problem - fingers crossed. No doubt Robert will put you in the picture on the technical bits and I'll certainly let you know how we get on at the weekend.

Cheers
Mike
Mike,
Like myredzed, I can also recommend the service from ECUtesting.com. The only slight disappointment, was that they weren't able to do a full simulation test on my model of DSC controller. They did however, say it passed some basic (pinout?) tests and they only charged me for return postage as they couldn't do the full test. FYI, the part no. of my module is 6 753 603 and it's a DSC3-ES controller (not ASC) made by ATE.
Brian H wrote: Hi Dom,

I too have the BMTechnic setup, I have found the OBDII port a little frustrating as the software will only connect with very few modules, I really now only use the 20 pin under the bonnet. I would have though that the 20pin connector and the OBDII port would share a common "communications bus" but it seems not, one thing I have noticed is that when using the OBDII port the software cannot recognise when I switch the ignition on.

My laptop uses a USB port for the connection lead with no problems.

Brian
Brian,
I can also use a USB port on my laptop with my USB/OBD2 cable, but only for the engine and a few other modules. Unfortunately, as mentioned above, to access the ABS module, I need the ADS interface which in turn requires a "real" COM port to be set up on the laptop. BMTechnic can recommend an ADS cable if your car requires it and you want to access more modules.
BladeRunner919 wrote:Dom,

What happens when you try and connect INPA to the ABS, using the 20-pin connector? Do you get any errors/evidence of comms etc? I have successfully fixed an abs/asc problem on mine using INPA and DIS, so it can be done.
Blade,
I'll see if I can dig out the errors I noted when trying to connect INPA to the ABS module (or I'll redo the test). I think it was along the lines of "Module not found", which made me think I was selecting the wrong option within INPA (so I tried all the ones in the list). When that didn't make a difference, I thought maybe the controller itself was dead or faulty, so that's when I sent it to ECUtesting (but they thought it was ok). I was able to communicate with the engine module fine. Did you have to use the ADS interface to communicate with the ABS/ASC module or could you access it with OBD2 (via a USB port)? I suspect as it was ASC (not DSC), it may be an earlier car than mine and therefore not needed the ADS interface?...

Cheers,
Dom

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BladeRunner919
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by BladeRunner919 » Thu 04 Oct, 2012 08:30

I have this cable:

http://www.carsoftwest.com/services.html

which is a proper serial cable. Where in Surrey are you Dom?

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Robert T
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Thu 04 Oct, 2012 10:37

I find it difficult to believe that LATER cars would require a full serial interface. My pre-facelift 1.9 with ASC+T and Brian's 3.0 with DSC both worth with the BM Technic USB cable, so I wouldn't have thought that was the problem. If anything, I might expect that the very early 1.9's might have problems, as I know mine has some of the later electronic modules in it, like EWS III-G. Whilst on the subject, I don't see why you can't have a USB to Serial convertor that can do a full serial port emulation, but it would likely need more complex hardware than the cheapo ones, or likely the one that is part and parcel of the BM Technic cable - I do have such a beast, made by WASP, but I have not tested it with any diagnostic software.

When I first tried INPA, I didn't know exactly which modules I would/would not be able to talk to. The ASC unit took several attempts before I got the right script to do the job. The scripts failed with an error message that could not be discerned from those for modules that I do not have on my car. As you can see from the image below, there are at least three DSC options:

Image

Also, if the control unit for your DSC is dead, then you very likely won't be able to talk to it! The part number returned by INPA seems to indicate that you communicate directly with the control module, so no comms could easily indicate that it has met its maker.

Cheers R.
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DomS
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by DomS » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 01:06

Blade,
Interesting, I haven't seen that cable before. I live in Sutton SM2 and this is the cable I have...
http://www.tek-tronics.co.uk/product_in ... cts_id=130
I can't remember if I got it from them, but it's identical to that.

Robert,
I also found it pretty hard to believe these later cars require an old fashioned COM port for communication (for certain modules), but that's what I've been told and have read. I'd also be keen to find a USB equivalent and I wouldn't say you can't get a USB to COM cable to work, just that there don't seem to be many (or any?) around with the right chipset.
I just want to confirm a USB with OBD2 connection (like the BM Technic one) on my car does work, but only to access some modules (not to access the ABS/DSC module which I need). I'd therefore be very surprised if you managed to access the ABS/DSC module on Brian's car using a USB connection. If so, it sounds like you probably used OBD2 as his car doesn't require the ADS (with COM port) interface? If his car has pin 15 in use in the 20 pin round connector under the bonnet, then it will need an ADS interface for INPA to be able to access all modules. ADS in turn will require a true COM port to communicate with the diag software on the PC.
As mentioned previously, I thought maybe I couldn't access the ABS module because it was dead, which is why I sent it away for testing. Also, as I'm not sure which INPA script my unit needs, I tried all the options I had too, but with no luck. I'm almost hoping my problem is just that I don't have the correct script in INPA for my module!

I'm away from home at the mo, but I'll hopefully get a chance early next week to spend a bit of time on the car, verify some test results and confirm what errors I get.

Cheers,
Dom

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Brian H
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Brian H » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 15:59

DomS wrote: ....... I just want to confirm a USB with OBD2 connection (like the BM Technic one) on my car does work, but only to access some modules (not to access the ABS/DSC module which I need). I'd therefore be very surprised if you managed to access the ABS/DSC module on Brian's car using a USB connection. If so, it sounds like you probably used OBD2 as his car doesn't require the ADS (with COM port) interface? If his car has pin 15 in use in the 20 pin round connector under the bonnet, then it will need an ADS interface for INPA to be able to access all modules. ADS in turn will require a true COM port to communicate with the diag software on the PC.
As mentioned previously, I thought maybe I couldn't access the ABS/DSC module because it was dead, which is why I sent it away for testing. Also, as I'm not sure which INPA script my unit needs, I tried all the options I had too, but with no luck. I'm almost hoping my problem is just that I don't have the correct script in INPA for my module!......
Hi Dom,

Just to confirm I use the 20 pin connector under the bonnet and a USB connection on my laptop to communicate with the ABS module, I have used the OBDII port under the dash but found this to be limited in the amount of modules that can be seen/interogated. The cable/s that comes with the BM Technic package is as follows: -
  • 1 x USB - OBDII cable
    1 x OBDII - 20 pin cable
    Note: To use OBDII use the first cable alone, to use the 20 pin connection join the 2 cables together
I had to re-check today that I could see the module, I did and all is fine. I have access various menus and data including a bleed menu for bleeding the brakes, if selected you can activate the ABS pump.

Brian

DomS
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by DomS » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 17:56

Hi Brian,

That's great, it sounds like you're able to use just the OBD2 interface for access to all modules (you lucky thing!), so I guess your pin 15 in the 20 pin round socket is dead/unused?

As you have a 3.0 DSC model similar to mine, are you able to check/confirm a couple of things?..
The build date of your Z3?
The part number of your ABS/DSC control box?
The script you selected within INPA to access the ABS module?

I'm pretty sure mine uses pin 15 and therefore needs ADS to communicate with the ABS module, but if we have the same ABS controller, it would be good to know which INPA script I need to access it. My part no. is 6 753 603 and it's a DSC3-ES controller made by ATE.

Cheers,
Dom

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Robert T
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 19:32

DomS wrote:That's great, it sounds like you're able to use just the OBD2 interface for access to all modules (you lucky thing!), so I guess your pin 15 in the 20 pin round socket is dead/unused?
This isn't 100% clear, but one would assume that the OBD-II to BMW is just a dumb cable, so you are only using the OBD-II lines in the round 20-pin connector. If this is so, then why did BMW not provide the same connections to the OBD-II port? If I am feeling brave tonight, I might have the case off mine and inspect which pins are connected (all 20-pins are present in the connector, so I'll have to look at the back of the connector to see which ones have wires attached).

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Robert T
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 20:53

Right, this is the innards of the cable I got from BM Technic (the same one that Brian has).

Image

Connections are as follows:
[col]14[/col][col]white[/col][col]+12v batt.[/col][col]16[/col][col]16[/col][col]green[/col][col]ignition on[/col][col]1[/col][col]17[/col][col]red[/col][col]TXD[/col][col]7[/col][col]19[/col][col]black[/col][col]ground[/col][col]4[/col][col]20[/col][col]red[/col][col]bridged to pin 17[/col][col][/col]
BMWColourDescriptionOBD-II
So it really does only use the data line connections. According to the ETM for my car, pin 17 links to the DME and EGS, whilst pin 20 links to the rest. The same diagram implies that on 6 cyl. models, they all connect to pin 20. As the cable shorts pins 17 and 20, it should work the same with both.

Pin 15 is definitely not connected and on the ETM diagram is labelled RXD. The cap lid shorts this to pin 20 when the connector is not in use.

Edit: I need to double-check the pinout of the OBD-II connector - I am numbering the female from 1 top-left, with pins 1-8 across the top and 9-16 across the bottom - the numbers will reverse if they number the male (i.e. 1 becomes 8 and 16 becomes 9).

Sent from my Galaxy SII using Tapatalk 2
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MikeR
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 21:01

OMG - this thread appears to have opened up a real can of worms! The whole thing appears tome to be something from the dark side of technology!!!
Fingers crossed that things get resolved - perhaps tomorrow?

MikeR

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Brian H
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Brian H » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 21:13


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Robert T
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 21:37

Afraid it's a bit of a thread hijack, Mike, but it works on my car, so it *should* work on yours. Forecast doesn't look too bad for the weekend. Just give me a buzz tomorrow and we'll sort out a time and a place. :)

Brian, thanks for finding estocks' thread again for me - our BM Technic OBD-II to BMW adapter cable would appear to be the same as his - the only difference I can see is the colour of the bridging wire is yellow on his and red on mine. :lol:

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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MikeR
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 21:51

Many thanks, Robert. I'll certainly look forward to getting to the bottom of this issue.
Catch you tomorrow.
MikeR

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Brian H
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Brian H » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 22:32

Sorry for hijacking the thread Mike :oops: hope you get it sorted tomorrow.

DomS
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by DomS » Sat 06 Oct, 2012 01:00

Yes, holy thread hijack - apologies from me too Mike R! :oops:

At least the subject is still on topic and hopefully at the end of the day we can all learn something useful/new.

The post by estocks here on Zroadster.net is the same post that I'd originally seen on the E46fanatics forum and used to set up my laptop...
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=770882

There's a lot of useful information and feedback in both threads, but it also seems that unfortunately there's a fair amount of variance in diagnostic protocols and therefore no simple plug-and-play diagnostic setup that'll work for all modules on all Z3 models too :|

Fingers crossed you and Robert can get your problem sorted this weekend!

Cheers,
Dom

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Sat 06 Oct, 2012 09:39

Hey Guys, I don't see this as a thread high jack as the information coming out is all very useful and supportive. The time people have spent on this issue what with with writing messages, uploading pics etc. really does show the strength in the community that we have. Well done and thank you.

I'll certainly let you know the outcome of our efforts this weekend.

MikeR

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Sat 06 Oct, 2012 15:32

Okay, here is a screen capture of the error codes on Mike's car, as read by INPA:

Image

And here is my best Google translation of it:

Code: Select all

113  Pumpenmotor, Ventilblock, Kabelbaum
     Pump motor, manifolds, wiring harness

Error frequency : 0

    Fahrzeuggeschwindigkeit (vehicle speed)    0.00 km/h    
    Regelung (regulation)                      0.00 -
    BLS                         0.00 -

--

118  Steuergeraete Fehler, Einstreuung Drehzahlfuehler
     Control devices errors, stray speed sensor

Error frequency : 254

    Fahrzeuggeschwindigkeit    20.00 km/h
    Regelung                    0.00 -
    BLS                         0.00 -

--

33   Drehzahlfuehler vorne rechts Triggersignal
     Speed sensor trigger signal front right

Error frequency : 184

    Fahrzeuggeschwindigkeit     0.00 km/h
    Regelung                    0.00 -
    BLS                         0.00 -
There are three errors. The first relates to the pump and its electronics. The last relates to a wheel sensor, which is Mike is going to recheck. The second may just be a summary error (I have seen these on mine).

We attempted to clear the errors, but the first one either would not clear, or came back immediately.

We also tried the ABS Simulation, which gives the pump a good workout, but this did nothing - possibly because the system is disabled when the warning light it on. We tried the same test on my car and the results were quite dramatic - I actually pulled my foot of the brake pedal in shock as it was jumping around quite violently!

I took a lot more screen captures from Mike's car, including most of the other modules, and will compare them to my own - his car is almost identical to mine and left the production line a month earlier, so it should make interesting reading.

Cheers R.
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Sat 06 Oct, 2012 18:34

Well, there you have it, folks!

I now know that I need to look yet again at the front right sensor. It may well be that when I replaced the old one I had to break it to get it out. That resulted in bits of magnet breaking off so that its interfering with the signal picked up by the sensor. I'm not convinced that that will cure the problem - I reckon that I will need to sort out the pump and or control module. That's a job in few weeks time when I don't need the car - I'll probably send my unit away to ECUtesting for an overhaul etc.

Robert mentions that he also gathered more data than just the ABS issues. What he doesn't explain is that his magic box of tricks managed to create 27 different screens which he has saved. This was an amazing amount of information everything from key codes to amount of fuel in the tank!!! Even so interesting items like smoothness in each cylinder...... What ever that is? Was downloaded. It was a bit like getting a full DNA profile of the car and staggering to think that the technology was 14 years old!

Many thanks, Robert - I'll let you know how things go and don't hesitate to give me a shout when you want to do that job on your car.

Cheers
MikeR

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by DomS » Sat 06 Oct, 2012 21:44

Thanks for the update gents.

Mike,
I wonder if you have the old red herring of a reported wheel sensor fault, which is actually a fault withing the control module, particularly if you've checked, cleaned and/or replaced the wheel sensors already. Anyway, the good news for you is that ECUtesting.com have your part listed, which means they should be able to do a full simulation test on your unit and if necessary, they list a full refurb on your pump and controller module for under £200.
http://www.ecutesting.com/catalogue/pro ... 08013.html

A bit of a result considering the cost of a new unit!

Cheers,
Dom

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Sun 07 Oct, 2012 14:34

Cheers, Dom.
I tend to agree with you and as soon as I'm on half term, with a bit more time on my hands I'm going to get the job done via ECUtesting.

MikeR

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Brian H » Sun 07 Oct, 2012 15:32

Having looked at the readings above I would certainly rule out the sensor issue before shipping the ABS unit off, You could swap over the front ABS/pulse generator sensors and see if the fault stays with the right hand side wheel or moves to the left hand side wheel (I understand this is easier written than done, they are a PITA), this would of course require you to read the codes again once the work was done. I have had a look on realoem and both the M44 and M43 for production year 1998 & 1999 use the same ABS pulse generator for either side, part number 34 52 1 163 027 (sorry guys I cannot remember which type engines you have). By the fact that you can communicate with the ABS unit/module and read error codes does not guarantee that the ABS unit/module is working 100% but I would rule out everything else first.

@Mike, when you replaced the wheel sensor the first time did you use a OEM part? It could be just plain bad luck that you have another faulty sensor.

@Robert, when I look in at my DSC/ABS I can see the analogue value of the wheel sensors, was/is this possible on yours or Mike's car?


Brian

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Sun 07 Oct, 2012 17:57

Brian H wrote:@Robert, when I look in at my DSC/ABS I can see the analogue value of the wheel sensors, was/is this possible on yours or Mike's car?
Yes, there was a screen showing the values for each sensor in km/h. Mike had replaced that sensor previously, but broke the old one getting it out, so there were bits of magnet all over the place. He is going to clean it up and check his connections and we'll try the codes again (he only lives about a mile from me). At that time it is probably worth taking the car out for a drive with the diagnostics connected and I'll check the readings.

Are we agreed that the reason the ABS simulation test won't work is because the error light is on and the system is disabled?

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Brian H
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Brian H » Sun 07 Oct, 2012 19:47

Robert T wrote:Are we agreed that the reason the ABS simulation test won't work is because the error light is on and the system is disabled?
Yes I think this is a fair assumption, the ABS module does not work whilst error codes are present.

There is always the option to remove the ABS relay and short out the pump motor terminals for a second or two, this circuit does have a 30amp fuse on it so not for the faint hearted :shock:
Last edited by Brian H on Sun 07 Oct, 2012 19:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Sun 07 Oct, 2012 19:48

Brian H wrote:so not for the feint hearted :shock:
Are they the ones with pale blue lines printed across their souls? :lol:

Cheers R.
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Brian H
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Brian H » Sun 07 Oct, 2012 19:53

:oops: sorted now :oops:

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Tue 06 Nov, 2012 21:28

As I started this thread I'll hopefully bring it to a conclusion.......but we are not quite there!

I removed my ABS Pump and Control module on Friday 26th October. It was packed up and sent away (Royal Mail Special Delivery £24) to ECUTesting Ltd. All last week it was "under test on the engineers bench". I called them last Wednesday and was told that the turn around was more like 5 days not 3 days due to high demand. Yesterday (Mon. 5th Nov) I had an email and text message to say that they had some news for me! I gave them a call and had it confirmed that the unit was faulty and needed repairing - the cost of that was £195 (the price as advertised). It's arrived back today an I find that I've been charged £255 - yes I'd forgotten the return postage and the dreaded VAT!

I'll be pleased if this has finally sorted the issue especially as I have a lifetime warranty on the unit. Yes, lifetime!!!! hang on....... Just looked at the small print....... The warranty only applies if I keep the car, if I sell it on it cannot be transferred.

All I need now is a fine weekend to fit the part and then bleed the braking system ......... I'll let you know if it goes to plan.

MikeR

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by MikeR » Sun 11 Nov, 2012 16:46

OK folks, just to bring things through to completion........ I've managed to bleed the brakes today. I used a pressure bleed system and a helper to apply some 12 pumps to the brake peddle at each of the brake callipers. The fear was that the recently installed ABS pump had to be activated to clear any air in the system. As it was things went well and the brakes are as good as they ave ever been.

My thanks must go to everyone who has contributed to this thread and given me their help in sorting this problem. Special thanks must go to RobertT with his magic box of tricks which pointed me in the right direction. The power of the zroadster.net forum really does impress at times like this - thanks again.

MikeR

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by BladeRunner919 » Sun 11 Nov, 2012 17:20

Good to hear that you got it sorted, and thanks for posting a conclusion. Too many 'problem' threads fizzle out as the problem gets sorted but the resolution isn't shared for the rest of us to learn from.

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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by Robert T » Sun 11 Nov, 2012 22:28

That's good news, Mike. I did find that when talking to Mint's 2.2, that there were some extra options in the DSC program that allowed you to activate the ABS unit to enable brake bleeding on either the left or right-hand sides of the car. With our earlier ASC, the only option was the 8 second ABS simulation that we tried on my car.

You more than repaid the use of my laptop by doing my seat bushes with me - if you need the computer again, you only need ask.

Cheers R.
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flyhal
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Re: ABS lights - frustration!

Post by flyhal » Thu 13 Feb, 2014 03:22

Robert T wrote:Right, this is the innards of the cable I got from BM Technic (the same one that Brian has).

Image

Connections are as follows:
[col]14[/col][col]white[/col][col]+12v batt.[/col][col]16[/col][col]16[/col][col]green[/col][col]ignition on[/col][col]1[/col][col]17[/col][col]red[/col][col]TXD[/col][col]7[/col][col]19[/col][col]black[/col][col]ground[/col][col]4[/col][col]20[/col][col]red[/col][col]bridged to pin 17[/col][col][/col]
BMWColourDescriptionOBD-II
So it really does only use the data line connections. According to the ETM for my car, pin 17 links to the DME and EGS, whilst pin 20 links to the rest. The same diagram implies that on 6 cyl. models, they all connect to pin 20. As the cable shorts pins 17 and 20, it should work the same with both.
Robert T wrote:Right, this is the innards of the cable I got from BM Technic (the same one that Brian has).

Image

Connections are as follows:
[col]14[/col][col]white[/col][col]+12v batt.[/col][col]16[/col][col]16[/col][col]green[/col][col]ignition on[/col][col]1[/col][col]17[/col][col]red[/col][col]TXD[/col][col]7[/col][col]19[/col][col]black[/col][col]ground[/col][col]4[/col][col]20[/col][col]red[/col][col]bridged to pin 17[/col][col][/col]
BMWColourDescriptionOBD-II
So it really does only use the data line connections. According to the ETM for my car, pin 17 links to the DME and EGS, whilst pin 20 links to the rest. The same diagram implies that on 6 cyl. models, they all connect to pin 20. As the cable shorts pins 17 and 20, it should work the same with both.

Pin 15 is definitely not connected and on the ETM diagram is labelled RXD. The cap lid shorts this to pin 20 when the connector is not in use.

Edit: I need to double-check the pinout of the OBD-II connector - I am numbering the female from 1 top-left, with pins 1-8 across the top and 9-16 across the bottom - the numbers will reverse if they number the male (i.e. 1 becomes 8 and 16 becomes 9).

Sent from my Galaxy SII using Tapatalk 2
Hello!
I have a 1999 Z3 and 2 adapters for the 20 to 16 pin plugs. I also have a scanner with the ABS mode and BMW selection. Bothe adapters have significant differences in the pin outs. I have an ABS and TCS faults but my scanner will not link up with the 9141 k line for the ABS. The engine k one works fine and I can reset faults on that line. What I don't understand is why and how the pins 17 and 20 should be tied together as one line is the TXD2 and the other is the TXD1. One normally doesn't short data buses together. The later model Z3 have the individual K and L lines (KKL) wired to the 16 pin standard OBD2 with the scanner then connected to that plug with no adapter. This is a significant difference in signal pin out to the scanner. Possibly if I rewire the console 16 pin plug to the later model pin out, I may be able to link to the ABS, etc., line with my scanner.

Since the more expensive scanners have the ABS mode, it should work on my car. I have read that the L line is needed to activate the missing bus. Also, converting my wiring to the 2001+ Z3, the ignition ON, etc should function properly.

What confuses me here is that I am experienced on RS232, H009, 1553, etc., buses and shorting individual buses together is a big NO-NO. Anybody out there really understand all this. I am a retired electronics engineer with much of my expertise on fighter aircraft including all of the F-15 system from the radar thru the ARAAM missile and launch system. I do have computers PCs but don't want to spend my life learing the KKL, CAN bus system. I just want to link up with a scanner that has the BMW mode. Possibly it is the CAN bus on late models???

Hal in Florida

***********
    Pin 15 is definitely not connected and on the ETM diagram is labelled RXD. The cap lid shorts this to pin 20 when the connector is not in use.

    Edit: I need to double-check the pinout of the OBD-II connector - I am numbering the female from 1 top-left, with pins 1-8 across the top and 9-16 across the bottom - the numbers will reverse if they number the male (i.e. 1 becomes 8 and 16 becomes 9).

    Sent from my Galaxy SII using Tapatalk 2

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    Re: ABS lights - frustration!

    Post by warhammer23 » Fri 31 Aug, 2018 11:05

    Hello. I am going through the same ordeal with this ABS problem.

    All of a sudden was driving and the ABS light came on. Then went off then on, varing through the days, ending with it being On all the time
    I know from previous experience that it was the ABS module. MOT time came and of course it failed on the ABS.

    We ordered a new ABS module pump from ebay - identical codes and part number. One got lost in the mail :head:
    A month went. Finally we found another one, installed it, bled the brakes and now it gives he following error: "power supply" something...
    The mechanic measured the battery, after he charge it overnight. He mentioned that it only has 440 CCA available from the 670 CCA from my battery.

    We will get a new battery but if the new battery doesn't fix it, any other ideas please?

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    Re: ABS lights - frustration!

    Post by mickdev » Fri 31 Aug, 2018 14:50

    Ive just had my abs pump sent off for refurb with lifetime warranty it cost £600 and it has solved the problem for good . don't do it through BMW

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    Gazza
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    Re: ABS lights - frustration!

    Post by Gazza » Fri 31 Aug, 2018 20:21

    I have a friend with a BMW X5 and he was having problems with ABS as described, his local mechanic said it was the alternator playing up, under and overcharging so he replaced it, ABS problem gone.

    Not saying it’s always that but worth looking into.
    Gazza

    "Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

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    warhammer23
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    Re: ABS lights - frustration!

    Post by warhammer23 » Sat 01 Sep, 2018 12:25

    I see. Yeah I think BMW could reffer to the alternator as a power supply error. I remember from my E34's option list. 'Boosted power supply' was a bigger alternator. Yeah will tell the mechanic to check that one as well.

    As for the rebuilt path - where was that mickdev?

    Thank you.

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