Central locking with key.

UK forum for general and technical discussion about the Z3 roadster

Moderator: Gazza

Post Reply
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6414

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Central locking with key.

Post by Southernboy » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 13:18

Hi all.
A little bit of background info.
A few days back I was out and after getting out the car, I pressed the lock button on the key fob and there was no response. I tried the key initialising sequence and the system didn't respond - no lock / unlock as it should have done.
Now here's the queer part - if I get into the car, and push the lock button at the door, all actuators respond. ie. doors, boot and fuel cap door.
If I now press the unlock button on the key fob, the system responds and unlocks everything.
I can use the key in the driver door to lock, and the key fob to unlock from outside the car too. I just get no response from the lock command on the key fob.
Any ideas anyone...?

Some component information.

Z3 has the GM IV module which carries out the functions of most body electronics functions including central locking. My model also has the EWS III module - ( not sure if other models have EWS II ).
The GM module has 5 relays inside the box. Only 3 are concerned with central locking. Relay 1 & 2 perform the lock and unlock functions, whilst relay 3 acts as a "ground" for the first 2.
GM gets the lock or unlock request from EWS and then performs the function.

Now, when I use the unlock function on the key, EWS sends the request to GM and GM does responds and the doors unlock.
When I press lock, either EWS isn't sending the message, or GM can't carry out the task... well, that's how it makes sense to me.
The fact that the unlock function works from the key fob, but not the lock command, suggests it must be a communication problem between modules.

I haven't gone to diagnostics yet, but it seems it may be the only way to isolate the cause / fault.
If anyone else can shed some light I would appreciate the help.
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 876

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by mrscalex » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 14:49

INPA will let you trigger individual solenoids and this may help to isolate an issue.

But honestly, it sounds like a wiring fault it’s so apparently random. May be the old loom of doom in the boot. I can 100% tell you from experience damage there can do daft things like this.
ImageImage
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - Keeper rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Cookies) - Keeper rebuilt having been bought with a seized engine
2002 Z3 3.0 Sapphire Black (Peanut) - Keeper awaiting rebuilding having been bought as an abandoned project
Plus Willy, Kodak & Maycee - All 2.2 Sport projects. Yes, 6 is a lot of Z3s :)
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6414

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by Southernboy » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 15:08

Cheers mate....
Problem is it's not actually "random"
I can use the key remote function to unlock, but the key remote won't lock.
Do you think there is a wiring issue on one of the actuators on the "Lock" side vs the "unlock" side which is causing the problem??
I'll have to examine the wiring diagrams and check that the two functions have separate physical wires. I have an idea it uses the same wires but with a different code sent to the actuator... ??
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions

User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6414

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by Southernboy » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 15:19

BTW - Can I access the info through OBD II inside the car or must I use the engine bay connection ?
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 876

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by mrscalex » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 15:32

I meant a seemingly random manifestation. I know it repeats.

You’ll need to use under the bonnet connector for sure.

What happens when you try and operate using the key in the boot lock?
ImageImage
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - Keeper rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Cookies) - Keeper rebuilt having been bought with a seized engine
2002 Z3 3.0 Sapphire Black (Peanut) - Keeper awaiting rebuilding having been bought as an abandoned project
Plus Willy, Kodak & Maycee - All 2.2 Sport projects. Yes, 6 is a lot of Z3s :)
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6414

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by Southernboy » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 16:01

If I use the key to lock at the drivers door it locks both doors and the boot. If I use the key in the boot, it only locks the boot without any sound of the boot actuator being involved. It also doesn't lock the doors. If I use the key in the drivers door to lock everything both doors and boot actuator are actioned. If I then go to the boot to unlock the boot, it also unlocks the doors and the actuators can be heard.
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 876

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by mrscalex » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 16:20

Well I think that’s the clue isn’t it.

I would start from the boot lid. And I suspect you will find damage to the loom.
ImageImage
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - Keeper rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Cookies) - Keeper rebuilt having been bought with a seized engine
2002 Z3 3.0 Sapphire Black (Peanut) - Keeper awaiting rebuilding having been bought as an abandoned project
Plus Willy, Kodak & Maycee - All 2.2 Sport projects. Yes, 6 is a lot of Z3s :)
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6414

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by Southernboy » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 17:17

I'm really impressed with your help !! I'll go look there and hope it'll be the source of the problem - I'll let you know what I find
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 876

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by mrscalex » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 20:35

Well I can't be certain of course but it's where I would start.

Top bet is I would expect to find something worn/damaged under the outer sheath near the hinge where the cables go up into the boot lid. But it might be somewhere else on that leg of the loom as other places are subject to wear in the boot too.

I'm just finishing a complete loom replacement due to a burnt out loom originating in a short from this very issue. However don't panic as that was in conjunction with a cheap Chinese fuse which refused to blow. An easy but very expensive mistake for the previous owner.
ImageImage
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - Keeper rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Cookies) - Keeper rebuilt having been bought with a seized engine
2002 Z3 3.0 Sapphire Black (Peanut) - Keeper awaiting rebuilding having been bought as an abandoned project
Plus Willy, Kodak & Maycee - All 2.2 Sport projects. Yes, 6 is a lot of Z3s :)
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 19:12
Posts: 675

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by motco » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 07:23

Forgive my 'left field' contribution but are you sure that the LOCK button on the key is working? I have a remote key and a torch key so I couldn't test it with another key - maybe you can.

User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6414

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by Southernboy » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 09:30

I have just now spent an hour doing the multi meter boot loom check. Everything is 100% in the wiring.
I removed the actuator and drowned it in switch cleaner, replaced it and still nothing.
By chance, I put the key into the driver door lock and locked / unlocked / locked etc etc.... I noticed a small anomaly - the lock lock turn of the key responded immediately, the unlock turn of the key was comparatively slow, and occaisionally required a repeat twist of the key to activate.
I opened the door and pressed down on the door lock button - it doesn't move if the door is open though - but it did move a couple of mm's.
I closed the door put the key into the door lock and locked / unlocked. This time the response was equally prompt. I removed the key and used the lock / unlock remote buttons and everything now works as it should.
There is obviously an issue with the movement / adjustment of the driver door lock / actuator / door lock button.
I'll take the whole thing out on the weekend and give it a full clean up and check the adjustment of the lock to actuator rod connector - it may require a small adjustment to allow the actuator full movement on the lock / unlock stroke. I'l also check the door push lock button movement - maybe that rod is not moving freely and preventing a complete action of the actuator and / or door lock mechanism....
At least now I have found the location of the problem and can sort it.
Thanks for all the support and advice guys - appreciated. :cheers
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions

User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 17:01
Posts: 3367

  M roadster S50

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by pingu » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:56

Testing with a multimeter only confirms that there is a single strand wire connection.

Use a test bulb. It will carry enough current to burn through any single strand connections AND highlight the fault.
Pingu

mrscalex
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 09:14
Posts: 876

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by mrscalex » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 14:16

Is the boot lock working now?

I still have my suspicions there. As I suspect Pingu does from his post.
ImageImage
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - Keeper rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Cookies) - Keeper rebuilt having been bought with a seized engine
2002 Z3 3.0 Sapphire Black (Peanut) - Keeper awaiting rebuilding having been bought as an abandoned project
Plus Willy, Kodak & Maycee - All 2.2 Sport projects. Yes, 6 is a lot of Z3s :)
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6414

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by Southernboy » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 14:43

The boot lock has always been working with the remote, but only when I have locked the driver door with the key, at which point I can press the remote unlock and the boot actuator works as it should.
The problem here is not unlocking with the remote, the problem is locking with the remote.
Earlier today I had the boot lock locking and unlocking all doors by inserting the key into the boot lock, but only after I had fiddled about with the driver door and got the remote to operate all locks 100%
When the system doesn't function, the remote will not lock anything, but the remote will unlock everything provided I have locked the driver door with the key. Obviously using the key in the drivers door also locks the passenger and boot locks.
So having fiddled about with the drivers push button and slammed the door a bit, suddenly everything was working as it should both with the remote and the key in boot or drivers door. Hence my suspicion that the fault is from the driver door which is also the master actuator. If that isn't functioning, then the boot lock won't function properly either.
The boot actuator has 2 power lines on the one connector, and 3 pin connections on the small connector.
The 3 pin connections are 1. lock, 2. unlock, and 3. a common earth / ground wire.
I tested this with the multi meter. 1st with the actuator arm in the lock position, pins 2 & 3 make a circuit, then 2. with the actuator arm in the unlock position, pins 1 and 3 form a circuit. This is as it should be. The other connector with the larger 2 wires are only a power supply to the actuator, and since the actuator works on the remote function albeit only the unlock function it tells me the power supply wires are okay too.
The fact that the driver door actuator "lock" doesn't function well with the key in the door lock, tells me that it has an issue.
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions

User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6414

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by Southernboy » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 15:23

Okay, so it gets really weird from here....
I can have 100% remote functionality as well as 100% manual functionality on one condition - the driver side window is fully lowered.... :evil:
The possibility exists that the window is interfering with some wiring for the door lock when fully raised.
Not much good locking the car with the window fully open... like a parachute that opens on the second bounce !!
I guess it's a full driver side strip out and check everything..
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions

User avatar
pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 17:01
Posts: 3367

  M roadster S50

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by pingu » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 21:24

I suspect that you have a dodgy connection in the connections around the driver's door lock. Connect a bulb to the circuit and wiggle the wires.
Pingu

User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6414

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Central locking with key.

Post by Southernboy » Fri 16 Nov, 2018 14:25

Got stuck in to the driver door this afternoon...
Door card, airbag, main window glass and small window glass removed.
Outer door handle and latch removed.
Inner door latch removed and then finally the actuator / door to body latch unit removed.
I saw absolutely nothing which would suggest an obvious cause of the malfunction.
I did check the wiring loom and it was like new other than a little dust. The actuator body lock unit was filthy so used some brake cleaner and switch cleaner then gave everything a good dose of lube (Q20).
Before re-fitting anything, I re-connected the actuator to it's power, held the little micro-switch depressed in the door frame part of the latch and used the key fob to activate.. It jumped about on the end on the loom like a freshly caught fish... While I had everything out, I discovered the little micro-switch for the automatic remote window closing hanging about inside the door. Not being familiar with this, I did a quick google and read, then refitted it to the outer door handle component where it has a small 2 pin housing. It had lost it's OEM clip, so I used some epoxy to lock it onto it's housing.
Refitted everything and then came the moment of truth... window fully closed - remote lock / unlock / lock etc etc... all working 100% again.
So the diagnosis is simply 20 plus years of filth which needed cleaning out...
Thanks to all for your kind advice and insights. :cheers
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests