Diagnostic tools

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dazthephot
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Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Wed 31 Jul, 2019 17:33

Hi guys

What are you using for diagnostics?

I have a peake research tool which is fine for resetting oil and inspection plus clearing faults but not much good for pin pointing.

I have the ABS/ASC lights on and rather than guess I wanted to actually have a proper pinpoint code. Hopefully one that says Front left ABS sensor or the likes.

I was hoping for something that costs about the same as having a garage do a fault test that way I have it for life and I can do it myself.

Anyway, much appreciated in advance.


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pingu
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by pingu » Wed 31 Jul, 2019 18:43

I have an old XP laptop (dating from around 2000) with a serial (RS232) input/output port (£75 from eBay).

and

12v charger to allow the computer to run when the car is being tested. 20 year old batteries are not very reliable :).

Windows XP (do not connect to the internet unless you want to get a virus)
Adobe Acrobat (to read the wiring diagrams)
Excel (to view and graph the data from TestO)
INPA and cables (with serial connector and 20 pin round connector) (around £10 - £20)
TIS (BMW workshop manual) (<£10)
Wiring Diagram on pdf (free if you can find it :) )
TestO (free if you can find it)

Parts List is online https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select

INPA is BMW's diagnostic tool and can do everything that a BMW technician can do with your car. It can translate the error codes into English and can clear the codes. It can also be used to view data live.
TestO either as a standalone download, or with INPA. It is a data recorder. It can be used to record most of the data that INPA can view. It is really useful for finding things like misfires. You would use TestO and take the car for a run. The data can be put into graphs and you can see the "blips" in the data.

This may blow your mid, but it does show the potential of TestO https://zroadster.org/threads/testo-dat ... ink.18350/


Some people use USB as the I/O port with a dongle, but the dongle doesn't fully replicate the serial port.
Pingu

mrscalex
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by mrscalex » Wed 31 Jul, 2019 19:53

Never seen that post before. I think I’ve just got over excited. Will certainly be trying that out :)
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2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - Keeper rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Cookies) - Keeper rebuilt having been bought with a seized engine
2002 Z3 3.0 Sapphire Black (Peanut) - Keeper awaiting rebuilding having been bought as an abandoned project
Plus Willy, Kodak & Maycee - All 2.2 Sport projects. Yes, 6 is a lot of Z3s :)
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

LaRy
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by LaRy » Wed 31 Jul, 2019 21:26

Unfortunately I have had the experience of ABS/ACS problems and solved it by reading and learning how it works. In this Z3 early generation of modern electronics, you can not trust in the fault code. I had actually exactly as you mentioned, left front wheel, but that was false information. It can be, as in my case, as simple as a broken ABS/ACS relay. Maybe you should also start a new specific thread about your problem. For me, it is important to know if the fault is coming immediately, at the start up check, or after start driving.

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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by Gazza » Wed 31 Jul, 2019 21:32

I bought a C110+ does the jobs I need.
Gazza

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pingu
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by pingu » Wed 31 Jul, 2019 21:46

If you view INPA on a test run, wheel speed will be zero on one of the wheels if the sensor isn't working.
Pingu

NZ00Z3
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by NZ00Z3 » Wed 31 Jul, 2019 21:56

I use INPA and find it very good.

If I was to buy a scanner, it would be the Foxwell NT520 with BMW software. Covers the Z3's and does all computers.

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Tufarlian
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by Tufarlian » Wed 31 Jul, 2019 22:05

Take a look at www.bcables.com

Cables, INPA, installer. Works for me :-)

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motco
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by motco » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 09:58

I have a problem with the self-levelling headlamps on my Jaguar X-Type and have been researching OBD2 adapters for use with apps for Android. One thing I found was that the cheap adapters are clones and do not have full functionality, but a 'proper' elm327 (many claim, few are truthful) can access all fault codes. Obviously my interest is in Jaguar codes (Ford in this case), but I also have a 2002 2.2i Z3 and I'll be playing with it on that too. The adapter I've ordered is on its way and my playtime starts when I've sorted the X-Type.

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pingu
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by pingu » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 10:18

motco wrote:
Thu 01 Aug, 2019 09:58
I have a problem with the self-levelling headlamps on my Jaguar X-Type and have been researching OBD2 adapters for use with apps for Android. One thing I found was that the cheap adapters are clones and do not have full functionality, but a 'proper' elm327 (many claim, few are truthful) can access all fault codes. Obviously my interest is in Jaguar codes (Ford in this case), but I also have a 2002 2.2i Z3 and I'll be playing with it on that too. The adapter I've ordered is on its way and my playtime starts when I've sorted the X-Type.
I can vouch for this. I have a drawer in the garage that is full of scanners that don't work (*). My setup probably cost £100 to set up, but I spent another £100 on stuff that didn't work.

OP is very lucky as most of the mistakes have been made and places like this will pass on their learning :rtm: .

(*) note to self - I must have a clear out :shock:
Pingu

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dazthephot
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 13:47

pingu wrote:
Wed 31 Jul, 2019 18:43
I have an old XP laptop (dating from around 2000) with a serial (RS232) input/output port (£75 from eBay).

and

12v charger to allow the computer to run when the car is being tested. 20 year old batteries are not very reliable :).

Windows XP (do not connect to the internet unless you want to get a virus)
Adobe Acrobat (to read the wiring diagrams)
Excel (to view and graph the data from TestO)
INPA and cables (with serial connector and 20 pin round connector) (around £10 - £20)
TIS (BMW workshop manual) (<£10)
Wiring Diagram on pdf (free if you can find it :) )
TestO (free if you can find it)

Parts List is online https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select

INPA is BMW's diagnostic tool and can do everything that a BMW technician can do with your car. It can translate the error codes into English and can clear the codes. It can also be used to view data live.
TestO either as a standalone download, or with INPA. It is a data recorder. It can be used to record most of the data that INPA can view. It is really useful for finding things like misfires. You would use TestO and take the car for a run. The data can be put into graphs and you can see the "blips" in the data.

This may blow your mid, but it does show the potential of TestO https://zroadster.org/threads/testo-dat ... ink.18350/


Some people use USB as the I/O port with a dongle, but the dongle doesn't fully replicate the serial port.
Wow, brilliant thank you. Certainly plenty for me to go at here!

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dazthephot
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 13:49

LaRy wrote:
Wed 31 Jul, 2019 21:26
Unfortunately I have had the experience of ABS/ACS problems and solved it by reading and learning how it works. In this Z3 early generation of modern electronics, you can not trust in the fault code. I had actually exactly as you mentioned, left front wheel, but that was false information. It can be, as in my case, as simple as a broken ABS/ACS relay. Maybe you should also start a new specific thread about your problem. For me, it is important to know if the fault is coming immediately, at the start up check, or after start driving.
Thanks. For me it's a bit intermittant (the fault). Comes and goes so i'm going to start at the bottom and wok my way up. Firstly resistance checks on the sensors then see what happens from there.

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dazthephot
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 13:51

mrscalex wrote:
Wed 31 Jul, 2019 19:53
Never seen that post before. I think I’ve just got over excited. Will certainly be trying that out :)
What if your car has both test points? OBD in the cabin and the round one in the engine bay? Am i right in thinking the engine bay is OBD1 and the cabin is OBD2?

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dazthephot
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 13:52

NZ00Z3 wrote:
Wed 31 Jul, 2019 21:56
I use INPA and find it very good.

If I was to buy a scanner, it would be the Foxwell NT520 with BMW software. Covers the Z3's and does all computers.
Thank you. The odd thing is that my car has both test points, engine bay (round one OBD1 maybe) and cabin rectangle one (OBD2 maybe). What happens there with that scanner?

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Robert T
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by Robert T » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 20:23

Ignore the OBDII one. It is only connected to the engine module. The round 20-pin connector under the bonnet is connected to all modules. It seems that the car's electronics are OBDII compliant, just with a proprietary connector. Note that earlier cars are not and require a serial interface to connect to certain modules. The cut over date is not clear, but it may coincide with the change to the instrument cluster around 09/98.

Cheers R.

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pingu
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by pingu » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 21:23

dazthephot wrote:
Thu 01 Aug, 2019 13:49
LaRy wrote:
Wed 31 Jul, 2019 21:26
Unfortunately I have had the experience of ABS/ACS problems and solved it by reading and learning how it works. In this Z3 early generation of modern electronics, you can not trust in the fault code. I had actually exactly as you mentioned, left front wheel, but that was false information. It can be, as in my case, as simple as a broken ABS/ACS relay. Maybe you should also start a new specific thread about your problem. For me, it is important to know if the fault is coming immediately, at the start up check, or after start driving.
Thanks. For me it's a bit intermittant (the fault). Comes and goes so i'm going to start at the bottom and wok my way up. Firstly resistance checks on the sensors then see what happens from there.
If you are going to do that, set the voltmeter to AC and spin the wheel, while you probe the leads with pins. If you get a reading, the sensor is working.
Pingu

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dazthephot
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 22:52

Robert T wrote:Ignore the OBDII one. It is only connected to the engine module. The round 20-pin connector under the bonnet is connected to all modules. It seems that the car's electronics are OBDII compliant, just with a proprietary connector. Note that earlier cars are not and require a serial interface to connect to certain modules. The cut over date is not clear, but it may coincide with the change to the instrument cluster around 09/98.

Cheers R.

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Brilliant thank you Rob


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dazthephot
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Thu 01 Aug, 2019 22:52

pingu wrote:
dazthephot wrote:
Thu 01 Aug, 2019 13:49
LaRy wrote:
Wed 31 Jul, 2019 21:26
Unfortunately I have had the experience of ABS/ACS problems and solved it by reading and learning how it works. In this Z3 early generation of modern electronics, you can not trust in the fault code. I had actually exactly as you mentioned, left front wheel, but that was false information. It can be, as in my case, as simple as a broken ABS/ACS relay. Maybe you should also start a new specific thread about your problem. For me, it is important to know if the fault is coming immediately, at the start up check, or after start driving.
Thanks. For me it's a bit intermittant (the fault). Comes and goes so i'm going to start at the bottom and wok my way up. Firstly resistance checks on the sensors then see what happens from there.
If you are going to do that, set the voltmeter to AC and spin the wheel, while you probe the leads with pins. If you get a reading, the sensor is working.
Nice one will do. Thank you.


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LaRy
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by LaRy » Fri 02 Aug, 2019 08:25

To spin the wheel is a very good test, the voltage will just be maybe 0.25- 0.5 volt AC, depends on the tester. As mentioned, check the resistance, I think it should be approximately 1 kOhm. Anyway, the resistance should be almost equal for all four sensors. Be careful when opening the sensor connector, the plastic is old and fragile.
In the beginning, my fault was also random, the faulty ABS relay gave up, but sometimes it worked. Mostly random already at start, at one start Ok, next not. Actually, I went to a junkyard and bought the relay, it is very common type for many BMW's.
I know much more what to check and how to continue, but this is a good beginning.

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dazthephot
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Fri 02 Aug, 2019 09:09

LaRy wrote:To spin the wheel is a very good test, the voltage will just be maybe 0.25- 0.5 volt AC, depends on the tester. As mentioned, check the resistance, I think it should be approximately 1 kOhm. Anyway, the resistance should be almost equal for all four sensors. Be careful when opening the sensor connector, the plastic is old and fragile.
In the beginning, my fault was also random, the faulty ABS relay gave up, but sometimes it worked. Mostly random already at start, at one start Ok, next not. Actually, I went to a junkyard and bought the relay, it is very common type for many BMW's.
I know much more what to check and how to continue, but this is a good beginning.
Brilliant thanks, as soon as it stops raining here I’ll be starting on it. At the moment the warning lights are out! I think simple checks first then see what’s what.


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colb
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by colb » Fri 02 Aug, 2019 09:14

No one has mentioned BMW Scanner that is available on ebay, MrScalex on here reccomended it and I got one to try it out. It connects to the car and laptop using the round to 16pin cable and usb to laptop. So easy to use less faf than using INPA. Have used it on a few Z's and my mates 325i. Clears codes and views live data with engine running. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-BMW-Scan ... 0005.m1851

I had this one in the link, quite a lot of others on offer at higher prices and different labels on the interface.
Colb
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dazthephot
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Fri 02 Aug, 2019 18:35

colb wrote:No one has mentioned BMW Scanner that is available on ebay, MrScalex on here reccomended it and I got one to try it out. It connects to the car and laptop using the round to 16pin cable and usb to laptop. So easy to use less faf than using INPA. Have used it on a few Z's and my mates 325i. Clears codes and views live data with engine running. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-BMW-Scan ... 0005.m1851

I had this one in the link, quite a lot of others on offer at higher prices and different labels on the interface.
£10 bargain but no mention of E36. A new avenue to peruse thanks.


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colb
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by colb » Fri 02 Aug, 2019 21:33

Yes no E36 listed in the description but it works, quite impressed with mine on my 1.9.
Colb
1999 BMW 1.8 Z3
1998 Honda Deauville NT650V

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colb
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by colb » Fri 02 Aug, 2019 21:48

Duplicated post
Last edited by colb on Mon 05 Aug, 2019 08:47, edited 1 time in total.
Colb
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dazthephot
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by dazthephot » Sat 03 Aug, 2019 18:50

colb wrote:Yes no E36 listed in the description but it works, quite impressed with mine on my 1.9.
Would it pin point which abs sensor was duff? If indeed that was my problem.


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colb
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by colb » Sat 03 Aug, 2019 19:42

It will read the abs module and show codes set, should pinpoint which one is at fault.
Colb
1999 BMW 1.8 Z3
1998 Honda Deauville NT650V

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motco
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by motco » Sun 04 Aug, 2019 07:37

It says Windows XP and mentions cannot be updated. Which Windows version do you run it under colb?

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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by LaRy » Sun 04 Aug, 2019 08:11

Yes, the reader will set fault codes, but are those correct? As the ABS unit in early version of the Z3 is made by Terves, it is not made for BMW, you can find the same unit in Dodge. As in my case, I had a indication on broken wheel sensor, when it actually was the ABS/ACS relay. Experts I talked to, recommended to check that all input signals are OK, like I did.
Another problem is that you will find several different fault code lists for the Terves, when used in BMW.

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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by LaRy » Sun 04 Aug, 2019 08:24

Correction, the manufacture is Teves, I think it is version Mk IV

LaRy
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by LaRy » Sun 04 Aug, 2019 08:40

My diagnostic tool gave me the information I have a Teves Mk IV. This information http://www.atss.planet.ee/kolaladu/ford ... /teves.pdf
helped me a lot in trouble shooting, as I got information what to check and what value to expect. Good luck!

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colb
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by colb » Mon 05 Aug, 2019 08:49

Re BMW Scanner, I run it on Windows 7 Home
Colb
1999 BMW 1.8 Z3
1998 Honda Deauville NT650V

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motco
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by motco » Mon 05 Aug, 2019 14:58

colb wrote:
Mon 05 Aug, 2019 08:49
Re BMW Scanner, I run it on Windows 7 Home
Thanks colb :)

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motco
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Re: Diagnostic tools

Post by motco » Tue 13 Aug, 2019 07:18

I've ordered one of these scanners and a 20 pin cable. Pennies and halfpennies really, so it's worth a punt.

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