Hi,
Recently bought a clean 45k miles S50 roadster and am looking to compile a winter upgrade \ refresh list.
The car goes into David Paul in Warrington on Thursday for an Insp II service, and they are going to give it a good look over while it's there, so hopefully that won't reveal any issues. It's been well looked after so far, I have a detailed file of history.
So far I have put 4 new Michelin PS3's on the car which has dramatically increased the stability in the damp. It's actually quite difficult to unstick the rear now whilst driving 'normally'.
The car is standard apart from lowered ACS suspension that has only done 15k miles, and H&R ARB's of a similar age. The suspension control seems nicely taut with minimal body roll, but it does feel baggy, which I assume is due to worn bushes. There isn't much tramlining.
I have a few questions, I've searched the forum already for most things, but an up to date view on the following would be really helpful -
1) I'm going to get a braided clutch cable put on this week as it's a bit grindy going into first. The gear lever also seems reluctant to move back to the central position when moving out of 5th, it stays over to the right. Is this likely to be related to the clutch hose, or more likely to be the shift mechanism itself sticking??
2) With the suspension upgrades already in place, is it worth going for powerflex bushes? I don't want to create an overly harsh a ride but I'm ok with it being firm. I believe that the bushes used on the Z3M are fairly stiff anyway. Has anyone upgraded to powerflex on an M and found the ride to be too harsh or crashy?
3) The brakes are strong enough for now, but I need rear discs. Any recomendations for cheap suppliers? I'll do a front pad upgrade before next years Alps trip, and the front discs are new.
4) Has anyone upgraded the dash board instrument lighting to brighter bulbs? If so what spec? I need to do the odometer bulb anyway, but the main instruments look like they would benefit from being brighter.
5) I'll be adding a strong strut brace (from Santa!), but with the lowered suspension and the height of the speed bumps near my house I'm reluctant to add any under-car bracing. Will the strut brace alone help stiffen the front, or just move the wobbliness elsewhere in the chassis?
6) The steering wheel is very shiny and is massive! I have an E90 M sport as a daily drive and it has a lovely steering wheel. Will an E90 wheel fit onto the Z3M?
That's all for now, thanks in advance, the forum has been really helpful so far. Hope to see some of you at a meet \ drive out in the north!
Cheers, Ian
Z3M upgrades \ renovation on recently purchased S50
S50 Upgrades
Hi Ian
Excellent choice! You are going to enjoy it!
I'm not sure what 'baggy' means. I would have thought that the suspension/ ARB set up would have been taught enough for most uses. I have the standard set up, apart from Polyflex bushes at the front and Bilstein B6s at the rear, and I can't imagine using the word baggy to describe the handling. I would be wary of increasing the stiffness - not only will the ride suffer, but you may well find the handling deteriorates on our less than perfect road surfaces. The Powerflex bushes on the front wishbones and ARB links tightened the steering feel, and reduced the front roll somewhat - a positive change for me - no noticeable effect on ride quality.
I don't suffer from tramlining - I think it's mainly a non-M issue.
The braided clutch cable should sort the gearchange issues - it did for me.
If you want it to handle well, you definitely need to think about the brakes. The OEM discs are excellent, the OEM pads are poor, depositing resin on to the discs with any intensive use, making you think the discs are warped. I changed to EBC Red Stuff, Yellow Stuff is recommended by several others on this forum, and the brakes now match the performance.
My dashboard lights are bright enough for me - I'm sure you know to rotate the light knob to change the level.
I have a front strut brace, which has made a significant difference to the general feel, and the lack of rattles. I have no intention of fitting under-car bracing having read other's experiences.
Jonttt is the expert on steering wheels - check his posts.
Best of luck, please keep us informed!
Mike
Excellent choice! You are going to enjoy it!
I'm not sure what 'baggy' means. I would have thought that the suspension/ ARB set up would have been taught enough for most uses. I have the standard set up, apart from Polyflex bushes at the front and Bilstein B6s at the rear, and I can't imagine using the word baggy to describe the handling. I would be wary of increasing the stiffness - not only will the ride suffer, but you may well find the handling deteriorates on our less than perfect road surfaces. The Powerflex bushes on the front wishbones and ARB links tightened the steering feel, and reduced the front roll somewhat - a positive change for me - no noticeable effect on ride quality.
I don't suffer from tramlining - I think it's mainly a non-M issue.
The braided clutch cable should sort the gearchange issues - it did for me.
If you want it to handle well, you definitely need to think about the brakes. The OEM discs are excellent, the OEM pads are poor, depositing resin on to the discs with any intensive use, making you think the discs are warped. I changed to EBC Red Stuff, Yellow Stuff is recommended by several others on this forum, and the brakes now match the performance.
My dashboard lights are bright enough for me - I'm sure you know to rotate the light knob to change the level.
I have a front strut brace, which has made a significant difference to the general feel, and the lack of rattles. I have no intention of fitting under-car bracing having read other's experiences.
Jonttt is the expert on steering wheels - check his posts.
Best of luck, please keep us informed!
Mike
Bagginess - defined!
Hi Mike,
The suspension seems well damped and well controlled over undulations on smooth tarmac. Over pot holes and craggy tarmac and bumps the front suspension feels loose, like the wishbones aren't well located. It's exactly what I was expecting a 12 year old soft top to feel like, but it also feels like the kind of thing that would be easy to resolve.
The steering feels loose as well, like there's a little play through the wheel, only a bit, but enough to feel like it needs addressing. Again, it feels like how I expected an older car to feel, and I'm sure it's easily resolved with either new standard bushes or poly bushes.
The instrument lights are on full, I just think that the bulbs are old and tired (like me!!). Maybe replacing with new standard ones will brighten it a bit.
As far as brakes go, I don't intend to give the car any abuse until it's been given a clean bill of health at Insp II, until the suspension is refreshed, and until I'm happy the diff can take it. As such I can wait for new pads until next year, there's plenty left on them. I'll price up the EBC 'stuff' range.
Cheers, Ian
The suspension seems well damped and well controlled over undulations on smooth tarmac. Over pot holes and craggy tarmac and bumps the front suspension feels loose, like the wishbones aren't well located. It's exactly what I was expecting a 12 year old soft top to feel like, but it also feels like the kind of thing that would be easy to resolve.
The steering feels loose as well, like there's a little play through the wheel, only a bit, but enough to feel like it needs addressing. Again, it feels like how I expected an older car to feel, and I'm sure it's easily resolved with either new standard bushes or poly bushes.
The instrument lights are on full, I just think that the bulbs are old and tired (like me!!). Maybe replacing with new standard ones will brighten it a bit.
As far as brakes go, I don't intend to give the car any abuse until it's been given a clean bill of health at Insp II, until the suspension is refreshed, and until I'm happy the diff can take it. As such I can wait for new pads until next year, there's plenty left on them. I'll price up the EBC 'stuff' range.
Cheers, Ian
Baggy M
Hi Ian
There is certainly some suspension 'crash' into potholes and over speed bumps, but as you say, only to be expected. I don't think this is a problem that can be completely resolved - obviously more modern multi-link set-ups are going to be more effective (though not as much fun!)
You may well resolve the 'wandering' issues sufficiently with the front Polyflex bushes and the front strut, so I would wait and see the result before contemplating further changes.
Presumably you're having the diff bracket and boot welds checked. I've found the fastest real-world acceleration is by short shifting into second before letting rip - there's obviously no traction control to get in the way - which is maybe why I've had no problems in this area (hurriedly touching wood!)
Mike
There is certainly some suspension 'crash' into potholes and over speed bumps, but as you say, only to be expected. I don't think this is a problem that can be completely resolved - obviously more modern multi-link set-ups are going to be more effective (though not as much fun!)
You may well resolve the 'wandering' issues sufficiently with the front Polyflex bushes and the front strut, so I would wait and see the result before contemplating further changes.
Presumably you're having the diff bracket and boot welds checked. I've found the fastest real-world acceleration is by short shifting into second before letting rip - there's obviously no traction control to get in the way - which is maybe why I've had no problems in this area (hurriedly touching wood!)
Mike
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SpaceMonkey
- Joined: Tue 08 Dec, 2009 15:24
- Posts: 174
- Location: Wallington
I would not use EBC Green, Red or Yellow stuff pads in any of my cars tbh.
There is some much better pads out there. I had Ferodo DS2500 pads in my last car along with Brembo HC disks & braided lines & didn't get any fade on my airfield day. Alternatively there are carbone lorraine pads which are even more aggressive.
It is definitely worth upgrading to braided lines too.
Admitted this advice isn't from Z3 ownership, but experienced on my previous cars.
There is some much better pads out there. I had Ferodo DS2500 pads in my last car along with Brembo HC disks & braided lines & didn't get any fade on my airfield day. Alternatively there are carbone lorraine pads which are even more aggressive.
It is definitely worth upgrading to braided lines too.
Admitted this advice isn't from Z3 ownership, but experienced on my previous cars.
Ian,
David Paul did my braided clutch hose, easy job for them.
Re the brakes, I would stick with OEm discs and are floating. After considerable research by myself trying best to justify a big brake conversion it was pretty clear that the OEM discs are as good as you can get short of spending £4k and only regular track use could justify that. I was dispapointed by the amount of brake fade on prolonged fast road use but EBC yellow stuff more than sorted that and I'm now happy with my brake setup (I did have braided lines fitted).
Personally I would replace the bushes with OEM (I also have the Schnitzer and H&R ARB's fitted)
Re the cluster lights, have you made sure they are turned up full (you would not be the first to not realise they are adjustable via rotating the light switch
. They are plenty bright enough for me 
Re the steering wheels, as stated above I can talk about that for a day lol as I put a lot of research into upgrading mine. Search out my article in the knowledgebase re the Raid wheel.
Options whilst retinaing an airbag are limited but the are two factors you need to decide about 1) thickness 2) diameter.
If a thicker wheel is all your after then retrimming will do just that and freshen it up / make it look more modern but still OEM.
If you want a smaller diameter (which IMHO is optimal, it really makes a remarkable difference to the experience of driving the car) then the Riad wheel is the way to go but it is expensive. Let me know if you need more info
Will be interesting to see how you get on a David Paul. They are not shy in telling you your being stupid if needed
David Paul did my braided clutch hose, easy job for them.
Re the brakes, I would stick with OEm discs and are floating. After considerable research by myself trying best to justify a big brake conversion it was pretty clear that the OEM discs are as good as you can get short of spending £4k and only regular track use could justify that. I was dispapointed by the amount of brake fade on prolonged fast road use but EBC yellow stuff more than sorted that and I'm now happy with my brake setup (I did have braided lines fitted).
Personally I would replace the bushes with OEM (I also have the Schnitzer and H&R ARB's fitted)
Re the cluster lights, have you made sure they are turned up full (you would not be the first to not realise they are adjustable via rotating the light switch
. They are plenty bright enough for me Re the steering wheels, as stated above I can talk about that for a day lol as I put a lot of research into upgrading mine. Search out my article in the knowledgebase re the Raid wheel.
Options whilst retinaing an airbag are limited but the are two factors you need to decide about 1) thickness 2) diameter.
If a thicker wheel is all your after then retrimming will do just that and freshen it up / make it look more modern but still OEM.
If you want a smaller diameter (which IMHO is optimal, it really makes a remarkable difference to the experience of driving the car) then the Riad wheel is the way to go but it is expensive. Let me know if you need more info
Will be interesting to see how you get on a David Paul. They are not shy in telling you your being stupid if needed
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KERMIT1970
- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 18:28
- Posts: 65
-
- Location: ARDROSSAN
Ian,if you are changing front discs i would consider drilled & groved from http://www.mtecbrakes.co.uk/store/ i fitted them to my z3 with mintex pads & have now fitted them to my z4 coupe , work well & are great pricel.just had a price from them for my 335d so think i might go for them too.
cheers
Gordon
cheers
Gordon
Hi Ian
My gearstick does exactly the same so let me know if the braided hoses fixes this, also if you don't mind letting me know how much to change the to the braided hose.
As for the steering wheel i have gone down the cheaper route of getting my wheel refurbed which includes padding the wheel out to the same diameter as my new 320 coupe, replacing the beige leather for black and getting the stitching done in beige.
My wheel is still away and will hopefully return early next week, i have taken before pictures and will take more for the afters and post on here when done.
The guy (Jack) i'm using is well known on all the BM forums, if you want his details at any time let me know.
£110 do to and return to me but did cost me an extra £15 to send it to him.
jontymo
My gearstick does exactly the same so let me know if the braided hoses fixes this, also if you don't mind letting me know how much to change the to the braided hose.
As for the steering wheel i have gone down the cheaper route of getting my wheel refurbed which includes padding the wheel out to the same diameter as my new 320 coupe, replacing the beige leather for black and getting the stitching done in beige.
My wheel is still away and will hopefully return early next week, i have taken before pictures and will take more for the afters and post on here when done.
The guy (Jack) i'm using is well known on all the BM forums, if you want his details at any time let me know.
£110 do to and return to me but did cost me an extra £15 to send it to him.
jontymo
1998 2.8 Roadster "Gone but not forgotten"
Ok,
Had a good look under the front end tonight, and it looks like the front H&R ARB is pretty secure and still pretty shiny. It comes with 'composite' bushes, so they should be ok after just 15k miles.
The front wishbones' rear bushes look original and tired. I'll check what David Paul advise, but I'm probably going to go for the powerflex bushes as they are only £40. I noticed on the way home tonight that if I was crawling along in traffic and braked to stop the car quicker than necessary, there was a slight front to rear (as opposed to vertical) rocking sensation, which must be the bushes allowing excessive front to rear movement.
I was a bit surprised at the overall state of the car underneath given how clean it is generally. Most of the front end suspension components are fairly rusty. I suppose I've got used to my kit car which I built with all new bits, so no rust anywhere. I now feel like stripping the underneath down and doing a full renovation with sandblasting and powdercoating!!!
Hypothetically speaking, if I did go down this route, does it all bolt back together easily? I'm thinking specifically of the geometry - if I take it apart (i.e. all front end suspension components removed) can I bolt it back together with the geometry ok, or will it need setting up professionally??
Thanks, Ian
Had a good look under the front end tonight, and it looks like the front H&R ARB is pretty secure and still pretty shiny. It comes with 'composite' bushes, so they should be ok after just 15k miles.
The front wishbones' rear bushes look original and tired. I'll check what David Paul advise, but I'm probably going to go for the powerflex bushes as they are only £40. I noticed on the way home tonight that if I was crawling along in traffic and braked to stop the car quicker than necessary, there was a slight front to rear (as opposed to vertical) rocking sensation, which must be the bushes allowing excessive front to rear movement.
I was a bit surprised at the overall state of the car underneath given how clean it is generally. Most of the front end suspension components are fairly rusty. I suppose I've got used to my kit car which I built with all new bits, so no rust anywhere. I now feel like stripping the underneath down and doing a full renovation with sandblasting and powdercoating!!!
Hypothetically speaking, if I did go down this route, does it all bolt back together easily? I'm thinking specifically of the geometry - if I take it apart (i.e. all front end suspension components removed) can I bolt it back together with the geometry ok, or will it need setting up professionally??
Thanks, Ian
re ///M cars, don't get caught up in the "drilled and grooved" tag, the floating OEM discs (only fitted to ///M's) are generally regarded as better ie I would have fitted "grooved and drilled" by now just for the cosmetic improvement but all my research and local indy advised me against the vanity as it would be a downgrade in performance.KERMIT1970 wrote:Ian,if you are changing front discs i would consider drilled & groved from http://www.mtecbrakes.co.uk/store/ i fitted them to my z3 with mintex pads & have now fitted them to my z4 coupe , work well & are great pricel.just had a price from them for my 335d so think i might go for them too.
cheers
Gordon
The only improvement over OEM discs is a BBK (ie calipers and discs) which I don't think you can run on standard rims due to clearance issues
1) Fit the braided cable, this will help ensure the clutch is fully disengaged and maintain control in hot conditions. However to compliment this I would HIGHLY recommend changing the gearbox oil, ignore the "liftetime" sticker or the dealer/garage saying it doesn't need doing IT WILL make a difference and may be the reason for stiff changes and will also help the slow return from 5th. Use AMSOIL MTF (available from Opieoils, requires about 1.3litres)
2) Don't bother with Powerflex bushes, it will be a lot of hassle for no improvement. The car will feel looser than a new E90, there is flex in the Roadster chassis which will be part of the reason. The Z3M wishbone bushes are great so replace with new ones IMO. At the rear ones thing you can do is buy subframe bush "inserts" which fill the voids of the very soft bushes reduce subframe and therefore suspension location movement. This is where all the movement is at the back, not the trailing arm bushes (these may well be worn but at 45k I would say should be fine, but the subframe bushes are soft from the factory).
With regards the steering, if there is dead/looose play in the wheel off-centre then 99% sure it will be the bush in the lower steering column. Obviously a new steering column will fix this but you can with a bit of DIY remove the bush and bolt it together removing any possibility of play.
3) For discs stick to OEM all round; well you can get aftermarket non-OEM plain discs at he rear but it is HIGHLY recommended to stick with the 2-piece floating BMW front discs, available from eurocarparts/dealers/bminispares.com(cheapest). Please don't fit Ferodo DS2500 you will regret it if you drive the car hard (judder and LOADS of dust). As a good all round pad I would recommend EBC Yellowstuff, you won't see any fade, dust or judder with these pads. I've used these very hard on track without fade. The DS2500 don't last 1 lap for me!
4) Not had a problem with this before; are you sure the brightness control is on full!?
5) Do you mean the body brace? I think this helps but it reduces ground clearance LOADS at the front, just where you don't want it, and with ACS you will be grounding it ALL the time. The most I would fit is a rear "butt" strut but even then I ground mine often on fast, undulating roads.
6) Newer wheels may fit (Z4M for example) but they need some good DIY skills to fit, mainly to sort out the "slip ring" which is a completely different design on the E36/Z3 to the E46/Z4 and newer BMWs.
The undersides can look rusty, it may not have done "many" miles but it's still 10 years old. No problem with stripping it down and bolting back together, all goes back only one way so can't knock anything out.
2) Don't bother with Powerflex bushes, it will be a lot of hassle for no improvement. The car will feel looser than a new E90, there is flex in the Roadster chassis which will be part of the reason. The Z3M wishbone bushes are great so replace with new ones IMO. At the rear ones thing you can do is buy subframe bush "inserts" which fill the voids of the very soft bushes reduce subframe and therefore suspension location movement. This is where all the movement is at the back, not the trailing arm bushes (these may well be worn but at 45k I would say should be fine, but the subframe bushes are soft from the factory).
With regards the steering, if there is dead/looose play in the wheel off-centre then 99% sure it will be the bush in the lower steering column. Obviously a new steering column will fix this but you can with a bit of DIY remove the bush and bolt it together removing any possibility of play.
3) For discs stick to OEM all round; well you can get aftermarket non-OEM plain discs at he rear but it is HIGHLY recommended to stick with the 2-piece floating BMW front discs, available from eurocarparts/dealers/bminispares.com(cheapest). Please don't fit Ferodo DS2500 you will regret it if you drive the car hard (judder and LOADS of dust). As a good all round pad I would recommend EBC Yellowstuff, you won't see any fade, dust or judder with these pads. I've used these very hard on track without fade. The DS2500 don't last 1 lap for me!
4) Not had a problem with this before; are you sure the brightness control is on full!?
5) Do you mean the body brace? I think this helps but it reduces ground clearance LOADS at the front, just where you don't want it, and with ACS you will be grounding it ALL the time. The most I would fit is a rear "butt" strut but even then I ground mine often on fast, undulating roads.
6) Newer wheels may fit (Z4M for example) but they need some good DIY skills to fit, mainly to sort out the "slip ring" which is a completely different design on the E36/Z3 to the E46/Z4 and newer BMWs.
The undersides can look rusty, it may not have done "many" miles but it's still 10 years old. No problem with stripping it down and bolting back together, all goes back only one way so can't knock anything out.
Hi
Maybe its me
but I thought Owning an ///M you didnt need to do all this
Maybe its a bloke thing
Anything standard no matter how good it is
Is never good enough
Ray
Maybe its me
but I thought Owning an ///M you didnt need to do all this
Maybe its a bloke thing
Anything standard no matter how good it is
Is never good enough
Ray
Ray
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
Not sure I follow your drift?!?Boysie wrote:Hi
Maybe its me
but I thought Owning an ///M you didnt need to do all this
Maybe its a bloke thing
Anything standard no matter how good it is
Is never good enough
Ray
I just want to sort out some niggles on a newly purchased car - I have difficulty getting the car into first gear.
The suspension is almost 12 years old and feel baggy.
The dashboard lights aren't really bright enough.
The steering wheel has gone shiny with age.
I need new rear discs.
If it was already 'standard' then I wouldn't need to sort these things out.
Hi
No just listening to what other people do to their cars
uprate this, better suspension, and better brakes
It was not aimed at you
Just a general comment
Owning an ///M takes some beating
I hope you enjoy your car
once you've sorted the niggles
Ray
No just listening to what other people do to their cars
uprate this, better suspension, and better brakes
It was not aimed at you
Just a general comment
Owning an ///M takes some beating
I hope you enjoy your car
once you've sorted the niggles
Ray
Ray
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
S50 ///M Roadster, Arctic Silver, Imola Red/Black interior
1970 Austin Healey Sprite, Original ' Now Sold
2002 Harley 1130cc V Rod Custom
Take one Z3M Roadster or M Coupe and drive it like it may have been designed to have been driven and the result is smoking juddering mess as the brakes give up on the 2nd or 3rd proper high speed stop.Boysie wrote:Hi
No just listening to what other people do to their cars
uprate this, better suspension, and better brakes
It was not aimed at you
Just a general comment
Owning an ///M takes some beating
I hope you enjoy your car
once you've sorted the niggles
Ray
All I've suggested is to upgrade the brake pads to something more befitting the power of the car, hardly major changes! The ACS suspension is an approved BMW accessory and stuff like the clutch line is arguably due to the original one softening, plus a gearbox oil refreshing etc. Made worse if you've driven something brand new from BMW's current range will make the Z3 feel very old and creaky doesn't help!
The steering wheel is personal preference, as the original wheel is too big (or rather the cabin is too small for it!). The only real modification I would suggest is the subframe bush inserts but this really does transform the car as it rides from the factory with the same super soft bushes as fitted to a 1984 E30 316i.
