E10 is coming

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Tufarlian
Joined: Sat 14 Mar, 2009 20:21
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
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E10 is coming

Post by Tufarlian »

E10 petrol (10% ethanol) is going to be the new 'normal' by next year, with E5 becoming rarer and more expensive.

According to the RAC:
"As a rule, drivers of cars registered prior to 2002 are advised not to use E10 in their vehicle, as problems have been reported.....
The RAC understands that if you put E10 fuel in an incompatible car it will still run, but seals, plastics and metals may be damaged over longer periods as a result of bioethanol's corrosive properties.
"

Full article here:
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emis ... ffect-you/

Does anybody know where we stand with our Zs?

Particularly interested in the possible effect on a year 2000 Z3.

Cheers
Mark

Mike Fishwick
Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
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Location: Daglan, France

Re: E10 is coming

Post by Mike Fishwick »

According to BMW all car manufactured since 1986 are compatable. This was about the time that E10 type fuel became the norm in the US, so compatability was required.

I have heard of older BMW cars which had to be recovered to the UK with a strange failure to start, which was quickly traced to the use of E10.

Ethanol is cheaper than petrol, but do not expect the price to fall. Like any alcohol, it is a good anti-knock agent,, but a poor fuel, so if you choose - or have to - use E10, remember that your engine will not produce its rated power, and that fuelk consumption will increase.
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!

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Tufarlian
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Re: E10 is coming

Post by Tufarlian »

Thanks Mike.

Good to hear that Z3s should be OK.

I have read elsewhere that it is likely to result in lower power and higher fuel consumption. If I were at all cynical I might think that is part of the plan. More fuel sold = more tax paid.

One thing is for sure - it will not mean cheaper fuel!

Don't you already have E10 as the most widely available in France?

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motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
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Re: E10 is coming

Post by motco »

It's not clear whether Premium petrol will be E10 though. I always use the local equivalent of V-Power

Mike Fishwick
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Re: E10 is coming

Post by Mike Fishwick »

Yes - here in France we have had E10 available for several years, but we also have E5 95 octane, mainly at auroroute serviuce areas, as an addition to E5 95 voctane fuel. More importantly, We also have really good 98 octane widely available - I find that on a steady speed autoroute journey, using our local supermarket's 98 octane, the Z3 gives a ready 36 mpg - but after filling up with Shell V-Power at a service area I struggled to get 28 mpg! I find the very best fuel in France is Total Excellium 98 octane, which can give up to 40 mpg on an Autoroute. A friend with a modified Morgan Plus 8 also finds the same.

I found the same in the UK, with either V-Power Nitro or the BP equivalent being very poor in comparison with Easso Supreme 97 octane. I have not used the Z3 in the UK for about three years, but doubt if the situation has improved. The reason is, I feel, that the ethanold reduces pinking, and so allows the engine to operate with more igition advance, so letting it rev more freely, but the base crude from which it is made is not one of the best in terms of energy production.

I can forsee the end of anything but 95 octane in the UK - 97 has been very difficult to find in the south-west for many years - and even then, E5 fuel will obviously be curtailed before long, in the sacred name of the environment. This will, of course, drive the older cars off the roads, so 'encouraging' owners to buy new cars and give the government a bit more VAT.

It seems that the committee which decided to standardise of E10 did not include any representatives from the Federation of Historic Vehicle Clubs, whose cherished cars will soon become museum pieces - I wonder what the Duke of Edinburgh and Prince Charles think about that, as both own and cherish some interesting cars. Of course, no-one is permitted to criticise any policy which claims to offer protection to the environment.

If you are cynical, like conspiracy theories, and fancy a good read about such policies, look in Wikipedia at the beginning and end sections of 'Report from Iron Mountain,' which may - or may not - be a leaked document from the US Government regarding their options to retain control of the population in the event of an end to the Cold War . . . an impending environmental disaster came out as being their favoured option - in about 1960.
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!

Bertie
Joined: Sun 06 Oct, 2019 03:46
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Re: E10 is coming

Post by Bertie »

Ethanol use in the USA has nothing to do with the environment . It started in the mid 80's as a boon doggle for to subsidise Mid Western farmers.
The objective was to justify agricultural subsidies to farmers who were being paid not to produce anything .
Ethanol from corn is a stupid use of agricultural resources ; an energy balance across the total process shows that ethanol production from corn uses more energy than is contained in the final product . On a global scale it diverts much needed food resources to energy production and drives up food prices in the poorest countries.
Over the last 20 years I have used fuel laced with 5 and 10% ethanol in a variety of old cars , 1949 Rover 75 , Rover P6 V8 , E type Jaguar .Jensen Interceptor , Fiat 124S ,as well as our modern family daily drivers Nissan ,Chevrolet, Subaru and Honda .I have experienced no problems with : metal and rubber fuel lines , gasket failure , corrosion , dissolving plastic parts.or any of he mysterious starting and driveability issues attributed to ethanol based fuels
Bertie

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domross
Joined: Fri 25 May, 2007 16:58
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Re: E10 is coming

Post by domross »

Thanks for the knowledgable reply Mike, I just came on for the first time in ages to ask this very question about E10.
I think Charlie’s main classic squeeze is a DB6 isn’t it?? He’s already had that converted for use with biofuels...something Aston will do for there special clients :)

Mike Fishwick
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Re: E10 is coming

Post by Mike Fishwick »

Assuming that you can get to France this summer, you will often find a bewildering array of pump fuel available. These days we are all used to unleaded petrol in 98 octane, as well as 95 and 95 e10 varieties. Remember that ‘e10’ fuels should not be used in BMW engines built before 1986, or poor fuel consumption, deterioration of plastics, and starting problems will occur.

Even small rural supermarkets offer 98 octane of a quality which provides far better fuel consumption than the much vaunted Shell V-Power - avoid it like le plague! I find that Total Excellium 98 octane gives the best performance in terms of steady-state fuel consumption in my Z3.

So far so good, but you should be aware of 95 octane e85 petrol, often labelled as ‘Super Ethanol.’ This fuel contains a minimum of 85% ethanol, this proportion sometimes being far higher. For this reason the pump carries a red nozzle, and a warning that it should only be used in engines specifically designed for its use. On no account must it be used in ‘normal’ engines.

We also often find diesel fuel in ‘standard’ and ‘super’ varieties, the better fuel (such as Total Excellium diesel) performing well in older engines which have a higher compression ratio – typically above 19:1. It does not make much difference in later engines with lower compression ratios, this change having taken place to reduce diesel knock at low speeds on a cold engine.

A further diesel permutation, often seen in rural France, is a pump with a red nozzle labelled ‘GNR,’ or Gazole non Routier, which is considerably cheaper than any other fuel. This fuel is provided for non-road vehicles such as agricultural vehicles etc, and its use requires that the customer fills in an identity form before use.

In areas frequented by truck drivers etc (autoroute service areas etc) you will also find a blue pump dispensing AdBlue diesel additive, which is required by legislation to reduce emissions of nitrogen oxide.

So – before filling up in France, do not become mesmerised by a possible number of seven pumps, and make sure that you will be using the correct fuel, rather than by simply grabbing the usual colour of nozzle . . .
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!

Mike Fishwick
Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Daglan, France

Farmers

Post by Mike Fishwick »

Yes - I have heard about American farmers being more interested in producing ethanol rather than food, as is promoted by oil companies in third-world countries which have a starvation problem!

An identical situation concerns the US overproduction of corn, which rather than donate it free to starving countries is turned into high-fructose corn syrup, which is used by most fast food producers. It not only makes their food - from bread to meat - taste nice and sweet, but it also stops our brains from producing the chemical which tells us that our stomachs are full, and making us into over-eating fast food addicts.

Of course, this makes so many people obese, but do not expect the UK government's 'War on obesity' to include a ban on corn syrup . . .
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!

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